The end of the third and final season of Star Trek: Picard arrives this week. We have details along with new images, plus a clip, so SPOILERS. We also have an update on the soundtrack and video of a cool new promo from Times Square.
“The Last Generation”
Episode 10 of Picard’s third season is called “The Last Generation.” The episode was written and directed by showrunner Terry Matalas. It debuts on Paramount+ on Thursday, April 20.
Synopsis:
In a desperate last stand, Jean-Luc Picard and generations of crews both old and new fight together to save the galaxy from the greatest threat they’ve ever faced as the saga of Star Trek: The Next Generation comes to a thrilling, epic conclusion.
NEW images from episode 10:
LeVar Burton as Geordi La Forge, Brent Spiner as Data, Gates McFadden as Dr. Beverly Crusher, Michael Dorn as Worf, Marina Sirtis as Deanna Troi, Jonathan Frakes as Will Riker and Patrick Stewart as Picard
LeVar Burton as Geordi La Forge, Jonathan Frakes as Will Riker and Patrick Stewart as Picard
Jonathan Frakes as Will Riker, Patrick Stewart as Picard, Marina Sirtis as Deanna Troi and Michael Dorn as Worf
Jonathan Frakes as Will Riker, Patrick Stewart as Picard and Michael Dorn as Worf .
Clip:
A clip was shown at the end of The Ready Room featuring the TNG crew on the Enterprise-D discovering where the Borg are hiding (starts at 32:43).
UPDATE: Trailer available
A trailer for the final episode is now available on StarTrek.com
Click to watch on StarTrek.com
Times Square promotion
On Saturday Paramount+ unveiled a new Picard promotion in New York City’s Times Square. Every evening at 8 PM a 90-second animation featuring the USS Enterprise-D runs on the 3D electronic billboard in from of the Marriot Marquis Hotel. Showrunner Terry Matalas shared a video of the promo…
Video! Times Square “Oh, yes. She’ll fly.” pic.twitter.com/Rm6XlyASIP
— Terry Matalas (@TerryMatalas) April 16, 2023
Soundtrack coming this week
The digital version of the season 3 soundtrack will be released on Wednesday, April 19. You can pre-order it now at Amazon. To preview the release Lakeshore Records has released the full “Leaving Spacedock” track on YouTube. You can learn more about the score and soundtrack in TrekMovie’s interview with composers Stephen Barton and Frederik Wiedmann.
The third and final season of Picard premiered on Thursday, Feb. 16, 2023, exclusively on Paramount+ in the U.S., and Latin America, and on February 17 Paramount+ in Europe and elsewhere, with new episodes of the 10-episode-long season available to stream weekly. It also debuted on Friday, Feb. 17 internationally on Amazon Prime Video in more than 200 countries and territories. In Canada, it airs on Bell Media’s CTV Sci-Fi Channel and streams on Crave.
Keep up with news about the Star Trek Universe at TrekMovie.com.
What are we gonna do, Will? We got one ship, and no crew?
We’re gonna do what we always do, Captain. We’re gonna pull a technobabble solution out of our collective asses!
(Cue some Bwastie Boys music)
lol. I can actually here Chris Pine and Zach Quinto in my head reading that.
Free pass though for Picard/Matalas on this though, whereas JJA would’ve been raked over the coals by the fans for a similar solution.
Trust me — if that comes to pass, he won’t get a freebie from me.
🎵”Bounce a graviton particle beam off the main deflector dish…” 🎵
Sounds like a trick pool shot from THE COLOR OF MONEY.
I wish more people knew the Voltraire songs!
“cuz if we find, we’re in a bind, we’ll just make some s*it up”
A barrel roll?
I’m pretty convinced there is a statue of the Beastie Boys somewhere on Kelvin Earth. ;D
Scotty done it also with the Enterprise while of the search of Spock.. so they have experience in that :)
Picard looks a little too happy in that last photo.
‘Happy’ in and of itself is okay … this looks ‘happy and doddering,’ not so good (not saying I’d fare any better if I lasted another 19 or 20 years.)
Love all of Star Trek, why so dark
They probably tried it because so many love all of Star Trek and therefore will be accepting of such differences, regardless of how silly it looks.
It wouldn’t be an episode of TNG if the option of direct confrontation using weapons wasn’t immediately taken off the table.
All that’s really missing is telling Worf “No!”
Agreed. I’m really hoping there’s more to the climactic “solution” than just a space battle against a massive fleet of ships. Fingers crossed.
There pretty much has to be. The Enterprise wouldn’t stand a chance in a direct confrontation with the entire fleet.
I was thinking the same thing. And then I just head Data saying, “Geordi, I can use my wireless access node to hack into the fleet’s mainframe. With an advanced trio-kinetic reverse matrix connection through the planimetric wave-form diodes, I may be able to commandeer half the fleet, or free them from the Borg’s control!”
Why do you assume they are going to take on the whole fleet? Wouldn’t it be much easier to go after the Borg cube that’s controlling them ;)
I’m sure the fleet would come to the Borg cube’s defense. Besides, the D isn’t a match for a Borg cube anyway.
I hope that this climatic solution does not involve Q’s return. I fear that he might return as he was the one that introduced the crew to The Borg.
He’s dead.
So were Spock, Neelix, and Data (twice). And there were not even gods.
I don’t know if I mentioned it in another thread here already or not, but a couple days back I saw one of those sculptures of Atlas or whoever with head bowed, holding the Earth up on his shoulders. I looked at it for awhile, and realized it would have been a great basis for a PICARD season 2 teaser. You start with this image against a starfield, and then you hear a cracking sound, and realize slowly the figure is not weighed down or troubled by the weight of the planet, and that he is using the Earth to crack his back and neck bones loudly. Then he looks up into camera and grins and you see it is Q.
Just tell me its their final goodbye. Enough is enough.
Lol. Not according to the rest of the world. This is zeitgeist culture the rest of the franchise can’t ignite. The impact of this season is… wow.
Nah, it’s fun, but it ain’t all that — and everyone can see how old Stewart and a couple other of the cast look.
I’m OK with a couple characters returning for a follow on series, but this needs to be the final next generation send off.
The episode where Picard was walking through the ship with a phaser, he looked so doddering that I thought enemies would just laugh. It’s time to hang it up!
It’s boring ‘jump the shark’ nostalgia.
I’m starting to feel the same way.
You were a big cheerleader for it earlier in the season and criticized me for critical comments. I was a “troll”,etc.,etc. Fess up and take the ‘D’.
It won’t be for sure they will make another season with the TNG crew once they figure out who gets paid what! They are not the problem its the writing is awful too much fan service that’s literally all it is a fan service wish list made for TV as a movie would be too pricey….!
Don’t worry. All of you that are so tired of this will get the final season of your “crying in the hallways” Discovery Trek soon enough.
No one‘s tired, we’re just not drinking the Kool-Aid that this is great Star Trek —enjoyable, yes, great, no.
Well, for your sake, I hope you and the rest of the negative nancys aren’t as dismissive, whiny, and negative about the other things you find “enjoyable” in your life.
lol I think it’s funny that you call him a negative nancy. You should see some of the complaints earlier in the season. There were people here complaining that the VFX ruined it, or the addition of a single sentence destroyed the plot lol
So, in life, you’ve never enjoyed a double cheeseburger and fries even though you can go down the list of why it’s bad for your health…and you never had a one-night stand that you both enjoyed and regretted at the same time? ;-) lol
It’s not a question of tired. At this writing, the entirety of Starfleet has either been assimilated, or is being phasered by the assimilated. With less than sixty minutes of broadcast time left, our merry geriatric band of six (The G-Team?), a beat to hell starship, and likely some Cameo Commandos is going to pull off a rescue of techo-biblical proportions. How does The G-Team follow that up that won’t be boring as hell?
I dunno, go ask Nicholas Meyer how he pulled it off in 1991?
That was probably as good a shot of the -D as we’re going to get, though it looked like I saw somebody in the windows, which can’t be right as they have no crew. Also … do we assume Scotty taught Geordi how to automate the whole ship, because, as I said, no crew?
Am honestly figuring that if this were happening ‘for real’ that they’d be doing this from the battle bridge, or splitting the crew between this bridge and that one (would love to see them sep the ship with the dish pulling away while the rest warp-rams a cube, but clearly this is not in the cards.)
Obviously thinking about this for more than 30 seconds is just going to bring the ‘irate’ in me to the fore, so I’d better quit now.
I’d mentioned a few threads back that if this goes down the way it seems to be going down, it’s really going to be stretching the limits of suspension of disbelief.
Prepare to be stretched…
Dude, you’re cracking me up given the way you always give a free pass to all the suspension of disbelief issues on lower decks. So suddenly on this series that concerns you?
In fairness, suspension of disbelief is a different animal on lower decks, a series where comedy antics are the main focus.
And…it’s a CARTOON!
Agree with both of you — but CBS insists it’s canon, so therefore everything we see in LDS “happens” in Trek’s future history…so we can’t write it off as a cartoon parody, unfortunately.,
I for one don’t want to write it off as a parody. Prodigy and TAS sit as less outlandish animated outings, with the latter suffering IMO from being too serious as much as from being low budget. LD is a heightened reality because it’s a cartoon with a comedic focus. At the same time, there are always plenty of elements in an episode which wouldn’t be out of place in a live action series. As has been commented here, DS9 did probably the most outlandish comedy in Trek in between the serious stories. LD sits fairly comfortably alongside those episodes, with some exceptions.
I’m perfectly comfortable with being able to reconcile different tones and exaggerated content between series and mediums.
And a great one at that! 😎
I’ve actually wondered how a live-action version of FAMILY GUY’s Peter vs. the Rooster might look. If you had tardigrade-level VFX (the only Kurtzverse VFX I have been impressed with), it might actually work, though obviously the speed at which action happens in animation is distorted from real-time.
The drive-section / engineering hull warp ramming a cube is a fantastic idea! There’s no one in that part of the ship so why not?
I’m sure people will just say it is a riff on one of those recent SW flicks where somebody went to lightspeed against the imperials, but for me the idea goes back to a TNG spec script I wrote where they get trapped inside a hypermass (black hole) and are figuring the only way out is to discard the secondary hull and nacelles, because there is this thing at equilibrium in a black hole where you gain escape velocity if you throw away at least half your mass. They don’t end up having to do that in my story, because Riker is on another ship that flies in and they use its mass as their throwaway ‘ballast.’
It got rejected when I submitted it, and then when I did get into pitch, I brought it up again (because I loved it THAT much) but Jeri Taylor killed it with, ‘we don’t do fantasy.’ (this was a year or two before hard science fiction writer Greg Benford apparently won awards dealing with the idea of a conscious black hole, which was my big idea to balance out all the DOOMSDAY MACHINE excitement.)
Actually, come to think of it, I believe Riker decides to ram the ship into the cube at the end of BOBW2, right before the ‘sleep’ thing happens. Give Piller credit where due.
Damn, that’s a helluva thing, even to have gotten the chance to pitch. Too bad about Taylor, who I rather respected as a writer and creative force on the show.
I’m experiencing sticker shock over something I heard yesterday on the radio about writer’s guild rates for screenwriting. A screenwriter was talking about the likelihood of strike and explaining the difference between streaming and network when it came to residual payments. (both shows were good experiences for him creatively, so this is just about the money – or rather, money and lack thereof, because producers and production companies took advantage of contract loopholes to essentially not have to pay creatives for residuals. Specifically:
He said that for the NBC show he wrote, he’d get another 25 grand for the first residual payment.
He then said he might get five bucks ($5.00) for the episode he wrote for a streaming service.
Now however ridiculous the latter number is (and it is beyond insulting), I gotta say I couldn’t believe residual payments for network could be that high, unless your residual rate for first re-airing is now like 100% of what you got for writing the show in the first place. At any rate, I really wish I had kept at the screenwriting, not out of any sense of ‘this is what I was destined to do,’ but more along the lines of ‘my family wouldn’t have been financially depth-charged by having me as head of household,’ because I have always been a terrible earner, even with F/T work plus the freelance writing.
Guess I better keep trying to finish that ‘formation of ILM’ script and get it to market … at least an option taken on that might offset for my burial expenses!
Because it wouldn’t look as cool for our heroes. Matalas is the JJA of TV Trek — with all the questionable plot devices, cool stuff for the sake of being cool and sentimental BS stuff happening that goes with that — with the only difference being he sucked up to the next generation fans — that’s why he is beloved and JJA is shit on.
Kirk’s head is in a jar, asking to get beamed out. Geordi is cross circuiting to B.
Stay tuned….(cue dramatic music).
might just happen! very limited set of photos this time
cat was out of the bag after ST III; automation of a ship that required manual loading of torpedoes in the preceding film.
I think there’s a counter theory on TWOK, that it was due to the damage from first attack that they HAD to load them manually. But nothing canonical of course.
Makes sense, though that doesn’t explain why even the turbolifts were de-technologized in that film (don’t get me started.
(Of course, there was also the case of the 1940s tech on display in “Balance of Terror,” where phasers couldn’t be fired from the bridge. Which doesn’t make it any less of a great show, but I still wish they’d taken a few seconds to justify it, since that had already happened previously.)
I remember Kirk having to push a button in the lift in TSFS, but was that true in TWOK as well?
Amusing only in retrospect side note: I tried holding a Kaiser-Permanente elevator open with my arm a la Kirk and almost had it chopped off a few years back.
Wouldn’t it be funny if they were all assimilated and… that was it?
Red, or blue pill?
See.. now… that’s the idea.
You know…. i’d be OK with that. At least it would be different.
Each member of Picard’s crew should have taken a different Starship from the Fleet Museum.
Riker and Troi should have taken the NX-01 Enterprise and Worf the Defiant.
It’s already a stretch to have 7 people controlling a Starship, one person?
I’m sure it’s been done before using automated systems. If need be, they could create their own network using Data to control most systems.
They have that — it’s called The Borg. :-)
This wouldn’t be that, though, since Data is not Borg, he’s all android.
You are correct — I was half-joking.
The EMH controlled Voyager all by his lonesome during the Workforce 2-parter in Season 7. He and Seven also controlled Voyager in the episode One, when the rest of the crew were in stasis while the ship traveled through a radioactive nebula.
It has been done. It can be done. We’ve got sufficient automation in the 21st Century. I’d be damned if the 25th Century didn’t have better automation than us.
Indeed. Phlox managed on his own, more or less, on Enterprise too.
Yeah but to be fair none of them were facing the Borg either. This is a species that will beam aboard your ship and assimilate you in seconds. It’s hard to believe you can fight them off both in and out of the ship as one person guiding a ship.
If the ship is big enough, maybe try hiding from the boarding party ;-)
They’ll jumpstart the M-5 unit that was preserved in the Museum.
Or use the Genesis device.
All or nothing, eh? I mean, when I first saw episode 6, a month before the premiere, that was honestly where I thought it was going: a clone of Kirk captains the A, Picard the D, Seven on Voyager, and Worf on the Defiant.
All-Star Armada! I was ready to groan heavily.
It makes more sense than an old jalopy defeating the Borg, though.
Presumably, they’re not defeating the Borg in a FIREFIGHT. Maybe Jack is VOICE enough to tell all the Borg to go to sleep, or maybe Data will pull a rabbit out of his positronic hat.
Something will happen for sure.
Well boys, it’s been a great ride!
Wow… some real Negative Nancys around here.
The amount of complaining about this freaking awesomeness (not perfection but freaking awesomeness) is truly astounding.
It really is crazy. There is so much positivity about this season across the internet, and you come here and you find these bitter, negative reactions that are so dismissive. I think the REPEATED naysaying from many who reduce and diminish season 3 of Picard’s success as just nostalgia and fanservice betrays a certain insecurity and defensiveness about fans cheering and being moved to tears over a version of Star Trek that they feel undermines a series of choices that fans have complained about for years and vindicates those criticisms.
I think when people reduce this show just to being nostalgia and fanservice (a term I don’t even think should apply since fanservice is just unnecessary nods and gratuitous insertions and that’s not what this is), it cheapens the performances from these actors. I don’t think people are just crying and excited about this show because “Hey! That’s Worf,” they’re into it because these characters seem familiar in ways they didn’t in season 1, there’s genuine character growth from characters like Riker, Troi, Data, etc., and the nostalgic elements are central themes of the plot.
People can argue about all of that. But people who reduce all of it to: “Oh people are just going nuts seeing the Enterprise-D,” it’s just so dismissive and wrong.
The humorous thing to me is how it’s flipped. The first handful of episodes most fans here were negative nancy’s while I was overwhelmingly praising it, to the point where I was called a Paramount employee.
Then they introduce the old Enterprise and suddenly it’s literally the nest Trek in the history of the franchise, while I’m able to see it’s not perfect.
And then there are the defensive whiners who take any critiques like it’s a personal affront, and who will provide a defensive answer for everything, no matter how ridiculous or counterintuitive.
I am enjoying the season, but I am discussing the issues I have with it on a Star Trek website. What’s the problem with that? Why are you taking this so personally and getting so defensive about it? And yes there’s been critical stuff on the internet, including a major article on Collider yesterday, so you’re claiming that the Internet is uniformly positive is BS.
And all of your posts I’m noticing that never once you’ve said to anyone, “hey you have a point with that critique.” I guess everyone who has any critique is wrong on every point they bring up, and you’re here to correct all of us on every point, right?
It’s exhausting. Judging by the reactions, it’s either the second coming of Star Trek and Matalas is the new Gene Roddenberry or it’s an abomination and anyone enjoying is betraying Trek and/or a shill. It’s either one extreme or the next. Naturally both sides are defensive as hell and just shout at you about how this is the most universally beloved thing ever or, again, trash.
Guess there couldn’t possibly people who are really enjoying the season for the most part, think there’s a lot of good stuff here, but also have some legit complaints. Guess I imagined all that and all the comments I’m seeing here and elsewhere. Didn’t know we had to be 100% or 0%.
Also, I find the “go enjoy Discovery and SNW” retort from people when you bring up complaints to be weak. I guess I’m easily pleased because thanks I will enjoy them when they air. I usually enjoy most Star Trek or at least find something in a season to enjoy. That’s why I’m here and elsewhere talking about Star Trek and watching it every week.
Agreed. First, there’s nothing wrong with SNW or DSC. I love SNW above all, and while I don’t love DSC, it has legions of and it’s childish thinking at best to say “well if you don’t like this, you will like the other.”
Over all, it just screams his own insecurity, so I don’t get my pants in a twist over it.
I’m not saying that anyone who likes it is betraying Trek. Trek is a big franchise and not all fans have to like and dislike the same things. If people like it, that’s okay, it’s their right and I’m glad for them. I personally don’t and that’s okay too. Like I said elsewhere I just felt used to get viewers when I was here for the DS9 connections and then those turned out to be either shit all or discarded with no hints of returning.
I feel you. It’s not my favorite but certainly not the worst either, at least for me. I’m just kind of in the middle on it. I just wish there was less shouting from both extremes. Not everybody has to be enamored with it and think it’s the greatest either. Same with the people mad that people are enjoying it. Not every Trek is for every person like you said.
Not defensive at all, actually. Not my cup of chai, but more power to those who are enjoying it, life these days being fraught enough as it is. At the end of the day, it’s just a TV/movie franchise that even at its best happens to be (much as I love it) about 1/1000th as brilliant as, say, HBO’s “Succession.”
Totally!
Yeah, the thing is I think this season is fun, and I am enjoying it. But I have issues with is, and I like to discuss that with other fans here — because I find doing that is fun!
I mean, we are all having fan discussions here, so of course we are all going to analyze everything to death…like, duh? If you want a 24/7 “atta-boy” positive party, you are on the wrong site.
If there was a critique that had a point I’d give some credit to it. But whining about “excessive nostalgia” and the mechanics of the Borg/Changeling conspiracy plot (which is effectively no different than what you could expect from the average TNG/DS9 episode) misses the point of what this season is about.
This entire season is about this crew rediscovering each other and the themes are based on it. That was what they told us this season would be about going into it. The fact some people want to put their own expectations on it is on them. But it’s not like they weren’t told what this season was.
The position of the people complaining about nostalgia is the equivalent of being invited into a bar, complaining that the only reason people are there and happy is because of the alcohol, and being upset that they don’t have a salad on the menu for you to eat.
Given how incredibly brilliant and insightful as you so clearly are, I find it odd that you haven’t noticed many of the problems with character and story. But hey, I defer to you, you obviously know it all. Thanks for setting us straight!
Nah, I’ll let you and everyone else who want to tell us that we’re liking something too much to do it for me.
No one is telling you that you like anything too much. I can only speak for myself when I state that my aim is only to explain, in the face of all of this adulation, my reasons for not liking it. The technical term for this is “having a discussion.”
There you go — overly defensive whining again. Sheesh!
“The crew rediscovering each other” (and their mothballed starship) may indeed be what this season is about. That does not in any way constitute a theme, alas. Which is at least part of the problem.
OK, Michael Hall replied to you best here, so I will repeat his reply, as I agree with it fully (thanks, Michael):
I can even agree with you, at least in part, about the treatment of the characters (esp. Picard’s line about only needing Starfleet as his family, which in its heartbreak is one of the best moments in the history of the franchise imo), and still believe that in terms of the storytelling and expression of Trek’s values that it’s a lousy show. Sorry.
“And yes there’s been critical stuff on the internet, including a major article on Collider yesterday, so you’re claiming that the Internet is uniformly positive is BS.”
Collider: The Problem With ‘Star Trek: Picard’s ‘The Next Generation’ Reunion: There are too many characters, and they’re all great.
https://collider.com/star-trek-picard-tng-reunion/
You obviously didn’t read the article article — they outlined a problem with the second half of the season with the storylines given the amount of characters, and how it’s making the second half of the season weaker than the first half.
That’s called a critique.
I can even agree with you, at least in part, about the treatment of the characters (esp. Picard’s line about only needing Starfleet as his family, which in its heartbreak is one of the best moments in the history of the franchise imo), and still believe that in terms of the storytelling and expression of Trek’s values that it’s a lousy show. Sorry.
If people were reacting more honestly to it, I’d feel a lot better. I actually think the season is just fine. Not great, but fine. My frustration is with the fandom, who are over the top in their gushing just because the Enterprise D is back.
Amazing because the best episodes of this season received a hearty “meh” from a lot of fans.
Why? Because a portion of the audience doesn’t share our opinion of it?
Look, I’m appreciating the 1701-D stuff on a technical level; some incredible work by the folks who built the set. It looks great. And the scene with the TNG cast was a real treat. But I accept it for what it is: over the top fan wank in a finale that’s intended to celebrate and say farewell to a particular era of Trek.
By those metrics, it’s doing it’s job just fine. Personally, I never mentally ‘left’ the TNG era, so the novelty of the modern age cast on the bridge of the 1701-D again is mostly lost on me. This is hardly the culture shock of, say, the DS9 gang carefully composited into and interacting with the rebuilt 1960s 1701 sets.
HOWEVER, I happen to know quite a few people who were absolutely over the moon by this scene and were freaking the hell out. Why on earth would I want to diminish that?! “Oh, you think you’re happy? Why are you being so dishonest about this??”
C’mon, man. It’s absolutely fine to dunk on what we don’t like. That’s just as valid. But I can recommend being, at least, relieved that there’s people out there who can sift through the wreckage of what you and I might consider “junk” to find bits of joy they can hang onto.
I envy them.
I’m speaking for my reaction only here. People can absolutely dunk on whatever or fangasm over anything. I’m not trying to “diminish” their reaction, nor am I poo-pooing the sucess of the show. Without a doubt it’s wildly popular.
But I AM rolling my eyes at how hypocritical it all is. And genuinely, I do fear what Paramount and Team Trek will learn from its success. Because I doubt it will be “well-written stories are key to success!”
No argument from me there at all. As a fan since ‘72, I wish I could share their joy, and don’t begrudge it at all. Seeing that bright, cheery, open bridge should have been a special moment for me as well, but (and I’m being honest with you here) I actually found it rather depressing, since given the contrast with everything else this season it only serves to show what has been lost. I hope that at least makes some sense, and thus you can understand.
Yeah I’m really sorry this season didn’t hit for you Michael. I’m actually shocked I’m enjoying it so much, but I’m sure you been reading my posts to know I still have issues with it, but am really loving it.
Oh and BTW, I read your review on Vox on Tor. I didn’t see your response to me until a few days ago and why I never responded back. Comment #26! ;) And yeah you are very down on this season lol. But I really agreed with your part about Jack’s monologue about how bad humanity still is. Yeah I thought that was weird too and not seen many people comment about it. I guess people are assuming he’s talking about the galaxy as a whole, especially given what he and his mother does. But yeah it strikes me as odd as well. And it’s not the first time with the new shows. A similar thing was said on SNW to Pike which I thought was weird but not a huge deal.
BTW, I have never been on that site until I read your review. I have no idea how I never heard of it until now but it looks to be a big site for all things science fiction and especially Star Trek. I’m going to have a big look around it when I’m less busy after Wednesday.
Hey Tiger 2,
Thanks for your response, and for taking the time to check out what I had to say. Believe it or not, I did look at that now-huge thread several times to see if you had, both out of curiosity and because in addition to your unflagging Trek-enthusiasm (the mods here ought to pay you for your boosterism), of everyone here, myself included, you’re the one person who’s generally unfailingly polite and willing to engage with all comers, whatever their Trek preferences. Which I do very much respect, even when we disagree.
To elaborate a little on my feelings about “Picard’s” retreat from TNG’s sunny optimism — ironically, it was by far the most utopian of all the Trek series — I don’t necessarily think it’s a bad thing when this franchise takes a trip to the dark side of the human condition, and I have little desire to see the Federation, even with its replicators and creature comforts, to be portrayed as a perfect society, because what’s to be learned from that? TNG only became watchable after Roddenberry’s “no-conflict” rule was shoved out the airlock, and its best episodes deftly walk the tightrope between our fondest hopes about what we could be and the reality of who we are. DS9 doubled-down (and more) on that, showing how even the best intentions can lead us down roads where we have to make hard choices (trust me, there’s no bigger fan of “In the Pale Moonlight” than I am). But there’s a huge difference between that and the lack of vision and creativity it took to show a planet run by human, Ferengi, and Vulcan (!!!) gangsters, or a sadistic war criminal employed by the Daystrom Institute, or the revelation that Vulcan, a planet supposedly run by vegetarian pacifists, in reality hosts black sites where (political?) prisoners are mind-raped on a daily basis.
I’ll also note that at least when DS9 subverted Trek’s optimistic take on the future, it did so in service of asking important questions of its characters and audience that didn’t lend themselves to easy answers. “Picard” has given us lots of dark stuff to chew on, to be sure, but what purpose did it ultimately serve? There’s been no real effort made to go into any detail about what exactly Beverly and Jack were trying to accomplish with their interstellar Mercy Corps, or why Starfleet would choose to have a recruitment center located on a cesspool of a planet run by gangsters. And once Vadic had filled us in on her backstory, there has not been a single word from any of the characters about what that revelation might mean about their society. Because the point was not to raise awareness about the cruelties visited upon prisoners of war, but to provide “motivation” for an irredeemably bad villain before offing her. Pardon me for being critical, but I find that pretty cynical, even for a Marvel tentpole. In the case of Trek, it’s infuriating.
Finally, I’m guessing that the critical take on Federation culture you’re referring to on SNW was expressed in the episode “Lift Us to Where Suffering Cannot Reach.” Just FYI, I had no problems with that at all. The episode is, as you may know, very loosely inspired by an idea at the heart of the Ursula Le Guin short story about a Utopia where everyone gets to be happy at the expense of one suffering child. The defense of that society is that of Utilitarianism, made famous to fans by THE WRATH KHAN’s “needs of the many,” contrasted with the uneven distribution of wealth and unnecessary suffering that exist even within the Federation. I think those are questions well worth pondering, even at the expense of brushing some of the gloss from Trek’s once-rosy future.
Hey there!
First of all, yeah I’m sorry I didn’t see it until just a few days. And just by weird chance I even saw it because I was looking for a link someone posted somewhere and I couldn’t remember where (still never found it lol) and that’s when I saw your response. And thanks for calling me ‘polite’, but I’m sure 1 or 2 people here will highly disagree with you lol. I have exploded a few times lately to certain people. But I do feel bad about it later.
Annnyway, getting to your point, the crazy thing is I don’t really disagree with your view all that much. And this is where even for me, who is generally loving it, this season feels conflicting because you’re right it, it IS a dark season (and from this point on, anyone reading this I’m referring to the story and tone, not the cinematography).
But for me, I’m OK with that, but I want to make this clear. Like everyone else, I love Star Trek for it’s optimistic and Utopia directed values. That’s always been a huge highlight for me, but I have NEVER watched the show for any of that. Again, I want to stress, I LOVE that’s what Star Trek is, but its really other things that drew me into the show, especially with TOS. And what’s funny is, there is a guy here (another one I get veeeery frustrated with including lately lol) is that he seems to think I’m a huge TNG gusher and because I love it’s portrayal of the 24th century and so on. I don’t have any real issues with it, but as I have made clear TNG is not my favorite show about 30 times now, DS9 is for those same reasons you cited, mostly because it’s just more realistic than TNG is in that portrayal. Because I just don’t believe a Utopia is realistic at all.
And even if it was, it’s only for a tiny slice of any given population because as humans (or humanoids in Star Trek) I just don’t believe most people can even live under those kinds of conditions without leaving a large group of the society behind. I guess this is just the cynical, negative side of me but I don’t believe it much at all. Yeah, maybe something close to a Utopia could exist, but a large group of people could never really exist inside it as it’s portrayed in TNG or Star Trek…which I don’t even consider a utopia in the first place…but close enough.
But ironically that’s why I love DS9. You probably heard me defend the idea of Section 31 many times. I’ve also said it more than enough times it makes no sense there is no military. I think I even said that to you once in a post. It’s a huge reason why I loved the Maquis story line, because that would be reality for most people. In a ‘Utopia’ you have to compromise like hell just to keep society running and I’m sorry even in the 24th century I’m sure people would just disagree and eventually rise up if they feel they are being screwed to keep ‘paradise’ running. Again, THIS is the Star Trek I love and why DS9 is closer to my heart because we saw more of these portrayals once the Dominion war started.
OMG, I have went on a tangent lol. OK, I’m going to make another post but I’ll get to the point now. ;)
OK, I’ll get to it now. What confuses me is that you’re right, this is a very dark season and yet, there is so much praise over it lol. It’s really strange for even me.
All the goobly gloop I wrote up there was me trying to say that I always liked when Star Trek showed it’s hand and that there was a ‘price’ for Utopia. And we saw that in Picard season one, which MANY hated because they kept saying because Synths were banned and the Federation didn’t help the Romulans in evacuating was proving that the Federation had become ‘dystopic’ which I fully pushed back on! And you know I did not love season one in the end but it had nothing to do with those issues. It’s one of the things I liked in fact because even in a ‘Utopia’ you have to weigh the bad stuff with the good. But dude, sooooo many people whined about how the show had become too ‘dark’ and not TNG enough. Even now, people say that.
But here we are in season 3, which seems ten times darker and not very Utopia in its portrayal and people are praising it lol. So I’m honestly just as confused about it as you are? I don’t really get it. This season is daaaark. They had a crazy lady torturing Changelings. Everyone we met NOT Starfleet are some of the loathsome people we have ever met. Even Shaw feels more in line with someone you find on DS9 (probably why I like him ;)).
So you’re absolutely right! But as I explained, it doesn’t bother me personally that it’s dark, but it’s still shocking how much of a pass other people have given it knowing all the crap they gave season one over it. Even Matalas said this was going to be the ‘optimistic’ season and more in the way of TNG. And I will say in terms of the main TNG characters themselves, yeah, they are basically who they were, just older. But everything outside them just feels a bit slimy lol.
So I get your issue and yeah I’m a little surprised it’s not more people’s issue considering how much push back they gave season one for feeling too dark and gloomy.
But I guess just having the characters back and being on a starship again is enough for those people.
Harlan Ellison often said that the only thing really worth writing about was the human heart in conflict with itself. He gave us what was often considered (at least until last week, ugh) the greatest Trek story ever told, where the lead must choose between the fate of the love of his life and that of the entire universe. But Ellison’s original script featured a corrupt, drug-dealing Enterprise officer (as opposed to a drug-crazed Chief Medical Officer) as the catalyst for the story’s events and was deemed too dark by the show’s creator, who altered it considerably before filming. When I read that script when it was first published in 1976, even then I could see that Ellison’s version was much more powerful dramatically than the version we got, but agreed that it had to be changed to fit with the Star Trek I knew and loved.
Context is everything, but then, so is execution. Again — I could possibly live with the darker elements of this season of “Picard” (just as I often did with DS9) if they amounted to anything like a theme that could make us rethink the way we see the world, rather than just serve as a backdrop to what’s mostly an exercise in Trekkie nostalgia. “Picard” season 1 takes a lot of flack from many, myself included, , and overall must be deemed a failure. But at least it used its darker elements in service to some genuine themes: the perils of AI; our tendency in the wake of tragedy to give ourselves over to moral panics; the plight of refugees. Those things meant something. What does “Picard” Season 3 mean, exactly?
As to utopia, I agree that it’s an unrealistic concept, mainly because it would require that all of us agree on what’s good, which immediately invalidates itself. One of my favorite treatments of the subject is the Kim Stanley Robinson novel “Pacific Edge,” which redefines the word somewhat to mean a world where even with all of life’s inevitable tragedy, conflict and heartbreak, we’re at least free to follow our hearts, and where ALL of our lives matter. That’s not so far removed from the Trek I’ve always loved, for all the silliness, and strikes me as a worthy goal for our species to move towards. Else, what are we here for?
I actually never knew much about Ellison’s version of COTEOF until just two years ago and that was through a fantastic YouTube video discussing it. But yes, I was surprised how different it was. I heard about the officer originally selling drugs in the original draft but didn’t know more than that.
And that’s the thing about TOS, it wasn’t ‘dark’ per se, but it still had less of a glow of how the world was viewed then. I know people have debated endlessly between the 23rd and 24th century versions of how humanity was presented and of course it was also because they were made at different times. And different political times as well. But again I had no issues that things could be a little darker on that show. The drug dealing officer feels out of place now, but I wouldn’t have had any problems if it stayed. As we been discussing I think it’s still OK to just see people do bad or flawed things once in awhile. And on TOS people actually did plenty lol, it was just never from our heroes.
But I understand your main point, it’s not just being darker, there is no narrative or thematic reason why it is, it just is. I do think that is the problem now that you pointed it out because no one is really reacting to it EXCEPT ironically Jack. So OK, I have to agree. I haven’t thought about it that much, but I always lose myself in Beverly’s eyes I guess lol.
And again, it is strange it’s not bothering more people. Why, I can’t tell you obviously. The only thing I can suggest, and yeah it’s a cop out, it’s simply a better written season overall. Season 2 was just so awful for me, I nearly wanted to stop watching it halfway through it. And maybe season 1 did a better job showing why everyone was so depressed and gloomy and the show made a point about it; but it’s still not a lot of fun to sit through after you did it once. But season 3, at least things are moving and yeah we’re watching iconic characters throw banter at each other for the first time in 20 years. For some, it’s enough even if you have to endure some pretty harsh stuff between it.
I understand your frustration. I don’t have it mostly because I admit I am more focused on the mystery stuff and as said I’m fine things are darker. But I don’t really think anyone can call it TNG season 8 as people were describing it outside of the characters and connecting all the canon stuff. There isn’t a lot of cheerfulness and optimism as you got on the show.
Ironically a big reason I love LDS and SNW because you DO feel that with those shows.
I think with season 1 people thought it felt darker because it was trying to also be super edgy like DIS tried in it’s first season with the incest Romulan siblings, the super graphic violence of Icheb’s death or slicing off heads, everyone swearing up a storm and sounded like people now, Hot Mess Raffi drug addiction problem, etc.
It felt too much like a Rated R movie but with Star Trek in the title and it put people off who wanted something more TNG again and not just a lot of screwed up people in space.
Season 3 isn’t perfect and it’s definitely dark lol, but when those characters are together it at least feels like TNG again and probably why fans have an easier time with it.
And I love DS9 too. It’s my second favorite show after TNG.
Yeah I can’t disagree with this either. The show did feel like it was trying to be edgy for edgy sake and fit the tone of what most of TV is now. I think it lost a lot of people after that Icheb torture scene. I still can’t watch it today.
The show has definitely calm down on that stuff even if it still feels a bit more violent and mature than TNG did.
I don’t think anyone of us are calling folks out for being dishonest about their emotional responses.
It’s clear that many people had them. We don’t discount them, or their genuineness.
My spouse and I are shaking our heads and trying to understand the ‘I bawled like a baby the first 30 times I watched that scene’ posts and tweets we’ve seen elsewhere.
Where I take exception is when it becomes impossible to have a discussion about the weak points of the episode. Worse when that overwhelming emotional reaction leads to the kinds of remarks that try to marginalize loyal and long term fans who have been giving every season of every new show a series try.
IKR. It’s not perfect, but Picard season 3 is still the best Trek since DS9 season 6 IMHO. I’m not a fan of the Kurtzman-schlock (the red door, etc.), but this is still good Trek.
I’m really enjoying it.
lol this is good Trek but “best since DS9” is hardly true. SNW is leagues better.
Um — see, that’s just plain not fair. If you like this season then Terry Matalas as showrunner gets all the credit. What you don’t like, you lay at the feet of Alex Kurtzman. Unless you have some inside knowledge of who was responsible for what, you are contributing nothing to the conversation but your own biases.
Well said, Michael Hall.
Kurtzman shouldn’t be the punching bag for any and all elements a particular fan or critic dislikes.
For that matter, there’s the question of ‘must haves’ and notes from Paramount execs too.
On the red stuff – doors, vines etc. —
Terry Matalas took ownership of those, as it happened, on Twitter early in the season. We saw similar imagery in 12 Monkeys. Matalas seems to be saying it’s the visuycode of his own nightmares for what it’s worth.
Exactly. It’s sad what a fan has to manufacture bullshit in the guise of facts just because they don’t like Kurtzman.
Epic fail, VZX
Where on earth did you get the information that Kurtzman was responsible for those creative aspects?
I’m calling BS on that as I think you’re just making that up.
I’m willing to acknowledge that many are enjoying it and that it’s bringing back many casual 90s fans and disgruntled TNG fans too.
What I find utterly exasperating is the number of folks who complained vociferously and relentlessly about the kinds of deficiencies in the JJ movies, Discovery and the earlier seasons of Picard that they are giving a complete pass on EXACTLY THE SAME ISSUES in Picard season three.
I’ve been here saying what I would like improved and what I am enjoying for five years.
As one of the long timers here was saying when I came on board, it won’t get better if we don’t say what we think is working and not.
For me, the nostalgia isn’t enough to overcome poor pacing and warping things to make everyone look incompetent to get people where the writers want everyone to be. I liked seeing competent Starfleet officers working together to anticipate problems and find solutions in 90s Trek. That’s what I’m nostalgic for.
This seson is catering only to nostalgia. And in a ‘jump the shark’ way.
I can forgive a lot of nostalgia. I can even forgive THIS nostalgia. But it doesn’t paper over the very real plot flaws.
Those flaw don’t ruin the season for me, but they are a real disappointment after such a strong start. At the moment it’s firmly in the “good not great” territory” and what’s bugging me most is how the anti-DSC crowd hems and haws over how great it is, when it suffers from a lot of the same problems as that show.
Yes! The nostalgia is dismantling a lot of fan’s brains. And that’s fine, if they enjoy it. But they seem to be insisting that anyone who wanted more than nostalgia is evil. It’s both strange and unTrekkian.
After all, “The glory of creation is in its infinite diversity, and the ways our differences combine to create meaning and beauty.” — Miranda Jones and Spock in “Is There In Truth No Beauty?”
If someone is to say “the story has issues, but I can overlook them because I’m just so happy to see the old Enterprise again!” I’d be fine with that because at least it’s self aware.
Like episode 6, I found a weak entry, and overly nostalgic, but I thought the nostalgia itself was forgivable because it was well done and contributed to character.
You know I don’t think that way Corylea! 😎
I’m absolutely loving this season, but I’m totally cool if people are not loving it and think it’s trash. That’s how I felt about it’s first two seasons and I was personally ready to give up on Picard like I have with Discovery. But for me at least this season finally gave me the Star Trek I been wanting since 2001.
But if people think it’s sucks they should totally have the right to feel that way and say it. I just don’t understand some people on the Internet? If you get triggered because people say bad things about TV shows or characters you like, then how on Earth do you get through life when things that are actually important to your life gets criticize.
They are just TV shows and movies. Relax! ✌️
And instead of people just being mature and maybe debate why they disagree with someone they want to bully you or try to censor you into silence. Those are weak minded and insecure people, but don’t let them try to silence you. That’s why certain people on that other site are blocked. 😉
Unfortunately this place and others don’t have the same feature. But don’t feel like you can’t give your honest thoughts about this show! If someone is trying to bully you over it, let me know! You know I always got your back!
(But I will try and destroy anyone’s life if they say anything negative about Tendi online. Even for me that’s just going too bleeping far.)
Agreed! I just don’t understand people at all sometimes? I understand it can suck when you really really like something and people are being very negative about it. Yeah it’s not fun to read lol. But newsflash people, you didn’t make the fucking show, so get a grip already!
A lot of us come to message boards because believe it or not, we want to be part of a debate and not a circle jerk. Of course, it’s always great when you see fans genuinely like something and most people are on board. Yes it’s great, especially when you have a fan base as fickle as Star Trek fans. But if you been a fan longer than a year, then you also know the score and that’s a tall order, especially from the last 20 years lol. Certainly the people making it knows that lol.
Just how it goes. And if you can’t stand to listen to people trash Discovery, Lower Decks, the Kelvin movies, TOS, Voyager, DS9 and yes, even Picard season 3 which I am thoroughly loving even with its flaws, then you should not be here, period.
And you’re right, usually these are just insecure and very thin skinned people. But what’s funny is 99.9% of the has nothing to do with them personally. As long as someone is not attacking you for liking it, then you have to show them the respect and tolerance to not like it. Sorry, but that’s how it goes kids.
If you want to debate someone you disagree with, please do. Defend your show with all the might that you can. I been doing that with Voyager for 25 years now lol. But if you just want to insult or bully them because you disagree with them, then please go away!!!! You’re not welcomed here.
I been in the trenches defending Voyager for 2O years now and I will die on that hill! 😁
These days most people don’t even argue about it anymore. I think thanks to JJ verse and then Kurtzman Trek, people found bigger fish to fry. 😂
But it’s cool for people to hate what they hate. We still love Trek regardless.
Well, that has been the default response to people’s negativity since the second season of Discovery; counter their hatred of what they did in the previous season by packing the latest one with stuff they like.
Yeah DIS was packed full of nostalgia in season 2 as well and shockingly why so many loved it and we got SNW out of it lol. People keep saying they don’t want member berries and old characters but yet all the biggest praise and best reviewed episodes or seasons seem to be those for some reason. The huge cries for SNW itself really does prove the opposite.
Unfortunately, in both instances it came at the cost of what made each series, DIS and PIC, unique. It would be as if their second seasons DS9 had changed from being set on a station to being set on a Starship, if VOY had returned to the Alpha Quadrant, and if ENT had moved forward in time 200 years.
Well, DS9 did in fact add a starship to its toolbox, as well as a certain Klingon, in an effort to goose viewership. These shows (as Rod Serling and Gene Roddenberry would be the first to tell you) exist primarily to sell soap, with being good entertainment, let alone inspiring art, very much a secondary concern. It’s to the producers’ credit that DS9 nevertheless never lost track of the kind of show it wanted to be.
Post credits scene leak:
Archer and Tpal shout “Computer, end program”. Smile, and walk out the holodeck.
That’d be fair play. I like it!
I think we can all agree that this season, with a healthy influx of TOS movie era type action-adventure, is way WAY (WAY!!!!) better than Picard Seasons 1 and 2?
It’s better, but not as much as people think. It actually suffers from a lot of the same problems, but because it has the crew back together on the Enterprise, they’re happy to pretend it doesn’t.
Well I’m more surprised TNG fans aren’t mad that Crusher did not trust Picard enough to allow him into David Marcus’s life probably because she felt he was compromised by the Borg while Picard was compromised by the Borg, that the ENT-E is toast and that the ENT-G got owned by the Borg. I personally think all of the above are awesome, so cheers to that.
I mean really what are they going to do, set a new Trek series on the TNG bridge? I figure that maybe would work for a live action comedy version of Lower Decks especially if they do a scene where the carpet lights on fire. A powerful lesson that just because you grew up with something as a kid when there were like 13 TV channels doesn’t make it smart nor viable.
I actually think they did a fairly reasonable job making Crusher’s reasoning believable. Does it strain the character a bit? Maybe. But it works, generally.
I absolutely understand her reasoning but then I’m a trans man, I can put myself in her shoes fairly easily.
And she is 100% right on, Picard WAS compromised by the Borg.
That’s not what I’m talking about but okay Mr Edgy Trek
LOL!
I am upset the Enterprise-E was done dirty for no apparent reason other than maximizing the nostalgia…but I’ve watched the E-D reveal like 20 times now, so I can’t be THAT upset.
I’d be lying if I said I didn’t LOVE the scene, that it didn’t elicit emotion, and that I didn’t rewatch it quite a few times.
I just wish the rest of the episode had made me want to rewatch it the same way episode 4 did. I rewatched that one quite a few times, it was so good, start to finish.
That we’re all JUST rewatching the final few minutes says quite a lot.
Meanwhile, I’ve watched the fan-created titles for Star Trek: Titan/Legacy about that many times.
There’s some great work in those.
Can you link one TG47? I would love to see those.
You think we *all* can agree? More than half of the comments before yours heartily DISAGREE! This season has mostly been ‘jump the shark’ nostalgia with a boring guest character (Jack) and a hideously bad acting performance (from Amanda Plummer).
Maybe here, that’s consensus, Idk. You’d have to take a poll to see. But broadly speaking it would seem everyone is over the moon about this. It’s currently the HIGHEST RATED TREK EPISODE OF ALL TIME on IMDb.
Actually Vox is not only the most highly rated episode ever, the entire season is the highest rated of all time as well lol. The lowest rated episode of the season is Dominion with 8.1. That’s insane.
Just to give people an idea of how crazy that is, here are some ratings for the other modern shows last seasons. The lowest rated episode of LDS season 3 is 6.9. The lowest rated episode of SNW is 6.1. The lowest rated episode of Prodigy is 7.1 (actually that’s pretty good for a 20 episode season). And finally the lowest rated episode of Discovery season 4 is, drumroll please, 5.1. OUCH! In fact Discovery season 4 is the lowest rated season of all time lol. Poor Discovery. :(
And if you look at all the classic shows, TOS-ENT, every season of all those shows have episodes fall into the 7s and 6s. And yes some into the 5s as well obviously. I think Shades of Grey is the lowest rated episode in all of Trek with a 3.3 lol. That’s nuclear option bad. Even TATV is a 5.3. Threshold is 5.2. Spock’s Brain is 5.6. I just went where no man should ever go! ;)
But the fact that Picard season 3 doesn’t have a single episode below an 8 is c-r-a-z-y. That’s early GOT and Breaking Bad type of ratings.
Wait Discovery season 4 is the lowest rated Trek season EVER on IMDB? Yeah that sounds about right! 😂😂😂😂
No one is probably watching this turd except the most hardcore fans like people here and I’m guessing many of them dropped off halfway through the season. No wonder this show got cancelled.
And Picard season 3 is the highest season of all time proves how much Matalas could turn lemons into lemonade. He’s the true miracle worker of this franchise.
It’s nuts given both the high ratings the show is getting in both views and fan reaction that they are not begging this man on their knees to come back. 🤪
Give us the spinoff already Paramount!
Well I didn’t check TAS, so maybe that’s lower? But on RT, the audience score for that show is like 80% or something which I also think is crazy liol. So yeah, I’m going to guess even TAS seasons is way higher than DIS season 4. More proof that Michelle Paradise should be fired for producing an awful show, but I guess that’s not longer an issue. ;)
And yeah PIC season 3 being the highest of all time is just nuts. There is now about 40 seasons of Star Trek today and the fact this season has already beaten all of them is mind boggling. Now these scores will curve and bend in time, so some of them will probably drop later, but at the moment it’s WAY ahead of all the new shows at least.
As much as I like this season, I don’t even think it’s my top season of the new shows. For me, as crazy as it might sound to some, Prodigy season 1 is still at the top of my list (only due to Janeway though…I’m kidding). I would say for now, Picard season 3 is second though, but I won’t really know until we see the finale. But if it’s at the level of Vox for me, it probably will stand. My third favorite season of modern Trek, again, probably sound nuts to some is LDS season 2. Really loved that season. But I have to stress, I’m only discussing the Kurtzman shows specifically. I have no idea where any of these would fall with the older ones, but I don’t think Picard season 3 would even be in my top 10. Maybe, but doubtful.
But I’m really happy this season is at least a vast improvement. Seasons 1 and 2 of that show is at the bottom of the barrel for me and I’m talking ALL the shows, not just the new ones.
OK, I got curious and checked TAS ratings on IMDB. Not great either but both seasons are still slightly ahead of DIS S4. But I think TAS S2 is probably the second worst rated season of the franchise? And it’s only six episodes so not a huge deal either way.
Anyway, DIS currently holds that dubious honor and not hard to see why. ;)
Hilarious! When a low budget cartoon from the seventies that was cancelled after just 20 episodes still has better ratings than Discovery, you know you got problems! 😂
I’m going to miss picking on this awful show!
I haven’t seen PIC season 2, and given the general reaction don’t figure that I ever will. As for season 1, well, I don’t know if it’s at all so clear a call, at least so far as I’m concerned. See my comments upstream if you care to, but for all its issues (I was horrendously disappointed with the back half, particularly the finale), at least that first year was about *something* other than nostalgic callbacks to an era where Trek actually had something of a voice in the wider culture. There’s a lot to be said for swinging for the fences and falling short, as opposed to getting walked to home plate.
Why not use omicron radiation like Phlox did? Just do whatever he did to kill the nanoprobes in his system.
I betcha that they have another secret weapon or two in Engineering: Janeway and O’Brien.
I’m still hoping, no praying, for a Janeway appearance! :)
Let’s get Neelix in there too!
Oh yeah I absolutely love Neelix but I don’t know how realistic it would be if he was in the Alpha Quadrant? But I guess after Prodigy, I can buy more people from the Delta Quadrant have made their way over there.
I’m still hoping we get a Janeway/Neelix reunion in season 2 of Prodigy at least. :)
That flyby of Jupiter is lovely, easily the best VFX shot of the season.
awe-inspiring and horrifying all at once, and we don’t even see the borg. masterful score
How bout a Captain Worf on the Enterprise-E novel?
I’m kind of wondering why they didn’t take Voyager instead of the Enterprise. Voyager has all those anti-Borg weapons that future-Janeway installed.
In S3x09, Geordi states that the Enterprise D is the last “function ship in the fleet that is not tied into the system”.
The museum ships aren’t part of the network.
But from Geordi’s dialogue, it sounds like they’re not functional. As for why, it’s clearly a plot contrivance so they’d be forced to take the Enterprise-D, because there’s absolutely no reason the other museum ships would be non-functional, but the ENT-D would.
That said, I’m not fussed by it.
LaForge served as the Chief Engineer of The USS Enterprise, NCC 1701-D – the flagship of the Federation. Even the boldly outspoken Captain Shaw was a stuttering mess in LaForge’s presence. It is entirely plausible that Commodore LaForge would use his influence (possibly bending some rules along the way) to restore Enterprise D to its former glory – a privilege not extended to other decommissioned museum vessels, especially post Dominion War.
I’m not either, though I’m much more inclined to give inconsistencies or even absurdities a pass when they’re in service to much better narratives than this one. And in truth, the notion that La Forge could divert the resources necessary to rebuild such a massive vessel to functional status, all in secret and to no apparent purpose, is just absurd.
Because someone else is gonna take Voyager, plus those weapons were likely removed.
Which new crew though, do they free the Titan
I’m hoping that when Shaw transferred the con to ‘Seven of Nine’ that he was hoping that she could link into the ship and make it her own collective as she did briefly with the isolated cube in season one.
She’s been a Borg queen briefly and stood down.
Let’s see if she can turn Titan into a Trojan horse…
“generations of crews both old and new”
So that basically confirms that stars from DS9 and VOY will be joining in on the fun. We see the Defiant, Voyager, and what LOOKS to be the Enterprise-A and Excelsior (NCC-2000) circling Probert Station in the closing credits, and Tim Russ has already said on Twitter that he was contracted to do two episodes.
So that begs the question, who else shows up? Janeway has been namedropped twice, so she seems like a likely candidate (especially considering her own Borg experience), I have to wonder who else they would’ve been able to get.
No I don’t think it’s them. If anything it’s a new Trek crew, so the Titan A gets freed or Jack Quaid and Tawny Newsome show up. People are gonna come running to be negative about the latter part but I don’t care and it’s also a 0% percent chance of it. It won’t happen, chill out. If Tuvok does show up, he’ll be part of the old crew.
In the Ready Room clip shown last week, it was said that the orbital weapons platforms were destroyed but Spacedock’s defenses were holding. I get the feeling that we’re going to see Admiral Janeway in command of Spacedock. I also think that part of this episode could involve finding the real officers that were replaced by Changelings (like Tuvok), and they’ll join in the fight. Maybe Seven finds a way to transfer Voyager‘s EMH over to the Titan to help develop a countermeasure for this new assimilation technique and (maybe) revive Shaw.
Shaw seems to be dead-dead (as much as that counts in Trek). Pity, that.
He definitely does, but Matalas and others keep talking as if Shaw is going to be in the hopeful Star Trek: Legacy spinoff. There are plenty of ways to still accomplish this if the character is dead, but it makes me wonder if they might save him. Shaw being revived by Borg nanoprobes (like Neelix was in that episode where that technique was never discussed again, like the shortcut to Itchy and Scratchy Land) would be another fun layer of trauma to drop on him, so I’m in favor of it being done.
It sounds like the natural path for his arc, having to live with being a ‘former X-Borg’ himself.
Having his body been used against his will, practically raped, he should insist everyone now call him Eight of Nine and no one should think he should want to be called Shaw again.
They teased Janeway SO hard this season, I will feel a bit let down if we don’t see her. Again, it’s OK if we DON’T, not trying to be a Negative Nancy lol, but I just really really hope we do. :)
And we are definitely getting Tuvok, so that’s a huge plus for me at least.
I’m thinking CGI Shatner, Kirk, and DeForest Kelley are GUARANTEED to appear, based on that episode description.
I’m no fan of deep fakes, but I am game for Chris Pine and Karl Urban appearances.
Wrong universe. ;)
A reviewer of the finale used the phrase “return of the king” to describe it. KIRK RETURN CONFIRMED!
I should get my screener this morning. I won’t be able to give spoilers but now i’m super excited because SHATNER IS COMING BACK!
Spoiler free review:
It’s… ok. Still a lot to digest. A lot of good character stuff, some really cringe plot stuff.
It does end very well, so I’m sure everyone will cream their pants, and once again Worf gets the best lines. That’s all I’ll say until Thursday.
Chris Pine was one of the bright spots of the JJVerse. Although I admit that I liked ST11 and ST13. Beyond particularly channeled some moments that were reminiscent of Shatner/Nimoy/McCoy on screen. I would not mind if Pine, Quinto, and Urban were given the opportunity to portray the prime version of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy.
But we already have a new prime Kirk and Spock now.
PIC S3: the villains are the Changelings
Me: whaaaaattt – okay on second thought, I can buy that some didn’t accept defeat and wanted things to remain the same. So you’re gonna develop the Dominion or just the Changelings more, right?
PIC S3: Vadic is a changeling.
Me: okay cool, so we’re gonna get some world building? Some Changeling lore?
PIC S3: Vadic’s dead.
Me: okay okay but that isn’t the end of the changelings in this season, right? We still have a chance for the Changelings to get some development as a species?
PIC S3: the villains are the Borg.
Me: oh bleeping beep.
Yes. I would have preferred more Changeling/Dominion development rather than more Borg. We may still get something in ep 10 but it’s all too rushed. It’s like most of the episodes are diluted and nothing much happens, then at the end they shove everything in our faces… Something else too: The entire season takes place on 7 or 8 sets. This and the ubiquitous darkness… I feel like I need to get out for some air!
Yes also agreed. I’m fine with having the Borg back but I was completely happy with the Changelings being the big bad since we haven’t seen them at all since the war ended.
And as much as I like this season, yeah it could’ve been 7-8 episodes easily. There was a lot of stalling in places. While I think this season blows the other two away by a huge margin it was still very very far from being perfect.
I wish I could use my discord emoji here. Pretend I added a faceplant emoji in this spot. It’s like damn if they wanted to stretch it out so much, they actually could have had some scenes where someone said something about the Dominion as they are now in the gamma quadrant. Like how they’d rather see a group of Jem’Hadar soldiers right now but Odo started having their genetic engineering changed and now they’re learning how to be peaceful and pursue other careers. (My brain: I want to see a Jem’Hadar musician now. Why do I do this to myself.) It wouldn’t be that much of worldbuilding but it would be something.
Maybe someday we’ll get something like that. Maybe someday I will see my dream come true and we’ll see a Vorta starfleet officer.
Yeah another thing I was disappointed about, we didn’t really get any back story about what is happening with the Dominion now. Other than knowing Odo is still part of the Great Link, that was it lol.
Again, as fans, we probably over think things too much at times and disappoint ourselves in the process but I was hoping we just hear about Cardassia and what it’s like today twenty years later? Or if Bajor is part of the Federation now (it’s very weird how everyone seems to go out their way NOT to answer that one lol). Or if the Federation is now back in the Gamma Quadrant exploring or creating new colonies there? I mean, that’s how the entire war even started, the Dominion felt the Federation was invading their space. So how is that relationship today? I didn’t expect to see any of this, but just a few lines of dialogue would’ve been nice.
I guess they don’t want to just spell everything out and leave mysteries they can probably explore in future stories. But I think many people expected at least an overview where things are after the war the way Matalas kept talking it up. So yeah, definitely add me to that disappointment as well.
Yeah. Yeah exactly. And I do get that maybe that’s being left for future stories but that doesn’t mean I don’t want hints now.
That’s also why I keep talking about the gamma quadrant based show that I want to see. Half (jokingly) wish I could pitch that for real. I’ve been thinking about my concept of it and determined that what I want is for it to be based on a starship with Julian Bashir as their CMO. And as they start their journey through the gamma, Odo says that they have to take a representative of the Dominion with them and sends them a Vorta who could also serve as a sorta guide to the quadrant. And the show could be about how both the Federation and the Dominion feel bad about what happened in the lead up to the war and during it so it’s them working with each other and the quadrant to improve things and how they both pay reparations to the cultures and planets that were conquered and effected by the war (on both sides of the wormhole) if this makes sense.
Dude, I would totally watch that show (but I’m still watching Discovery for some reason so I guess that’s not saying much lol).
In fact I had a similar idea of a show but this one dealing with the Romulus supernova fallout and there could be a Starfleet ship both exploring post Romulus territory for the first time but also helping to prop up new territories in the region for abandoned Romulan refugees, etc. This was something I thought of long long ago right after the first Kelvin movie came out and wanted to see once they finally made another TV show.
It would be a crew of brand new characters a few years after the planet was wiped out. And a Romulan would’ve been part of the ship too as both a guide and a representative and of course no one trust him lol. But it would begin to break down barriers between both
It’s really funny how we have the same idea, just in different regions and a different (former) adversary.
I’d watch yours too tbh. Romulans also need more development.
In fairness, I think if you’re really going to do a story about the Dominion, that should be part of a DS9 reunion, so maybe we have that to look forward to. No matter how good or bad it is, we know fans will call it the best show ever as long as they rebuild the DS9 set!
tbh if my gamma quadrant show the way I see it got made (lmao I know it wouldn’t), we’d actually not visit the station.
I didn’t say a story, just reference some things since the Dominion War is part of the season. It’s what people wanted to know for literally 20 years now.
But that said, my guess is the spin off show probably will touch on these things more if and when it comes.
That’s fair. I think, if I had to put money on it, Matalas didn’t even give it a mention because it leaves the story to be explored by another writer, so no need to force them into a corner.
I’m on record as not liking the Borg, but IF you’re going to do them, and do them justice, they shouldn’t be a throw-in at the last second. That’s not just a cheap fake-out, it’s not just kind of insulting to the changelings as villains — not just insulting to audiences — it’s giving the Borg themselves the short shrift.
I had a chance to preview the OST a couple of days ago, the next episode will be a doozy. Out of 45 tracks 13 are from the last episode, many of which co-credited to Courage and Goldsmith (and one to McCarthy) – you know what that means!
“Jean Luc, wherever you go, we go!”
Indeed. This season has been a lot of fun. And I don’t just mean watching it, but seeing the fan base so united over it. You look at YouTube, it’s a completely different community right now. Not a lot of division and infighting, but mostly fans celebrating and excited. It’s good to see, even if it’s probably temporary. ;)
But of course there is still people who don’t like it, think it’s awful, too much nostalgia, etc and I completely understand that too, including people here; many who I very much respect. That’s how this works. And I’m not an apologist, I have stated my issues with this season too. But overall I think we can all agree it is nice to see more people just enjoying Star Trek again on a level some may not have for decades now. I really hope the finale sticks to landing but it’s been a great ride regardless. :)
And Picard is no longer my least favorite show anymore, so that alone makes it worth it lol.
I just enjoy to see Enterprise-D back in action!
The trailer for the finale looks awesome!
love what they’re setting up! beverly, likely thinking of wesley sitting at the helm and pondering the loss of jack. *captain* picard now fully back to form
Just great television. There will always be complainers, but this has just been a fun ride! Far better than any of the movies!
Just dropping in to say that I loved, Loved, LOVED it!!! 😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍
The Borg thing was OK if this means that we can finally put this villain to rest (I howled with joy at Deanna’s Troi Maneuver, bringing the D to a screeching halt right above the Queen’s throne room), but the last 20 minutes? THAT’s how you go out!!! 👏😃
“Star Trek: Legacy” is next! ✊️😊 And it’s gonna be on the G! ☝️😄👍 But Terry, please do the name justice, and sprinkle it with a few character appearances from some Niners as well from time to time!!! 🙏😉
That was FUN! 🌟