I disagree about the production quality of DSC stacking up to Star Wars. A couple of years ago my flatmate and I would watch a Disco episode followed by a Mando one. The latter was a breath of fresh air, bright, clean and crisp cinematography and sharp visuals. Disco is a dark, blue/amber mess with blurry and poor quality visual effects.

Is that still on the air?

Andor is lightyears ahead of anything Trek has done in terms of writing, acting, cinematography, everything. Mando similarly far ahead too. I love both franchises equally, but it’s no surprise Star Wars got 23 noms, the quality is far higher than Trek atm.

Agreed regarding Andor and Kenobi — the only Trek series that comes close in terms of production quality would be the first three seasons of DSC. Mando is a little weaker though.

I like Lower Decks, that can be great. Funny but with heart.

I give credit to DIS for at least trying to push the franchise forward, but the characters and their personalities are so awful, it doesn’t much matter.

Strange New Worlds can be good, though I haven’t really enjoyed any episode this season yet.

Picard is a mess.

Don’t forget Shakeaspeare in Love winning over Saving Private Ryan.

Succession sucks. Better Call Saul all the way!

I’m glad you mentioned that because that’s something that gets glossed over by ST fans. The fact is, a lot of people think ST is geeky, but “lame geeky” rather than “cool geeky”.

 It’s well written, intriguing and compelling

As much as I have enjoyed streaming Trek in general, I do kind of long for a series as well-put together as Andor. For whatever reason, no seems to want to make that kind of ST.

Much stiffer competition this year. “Yellowjackets” is a bit of a stretch for me, though.

Agreed! But some folks just want to make noise, be the contrarian and poke the bear.

And as much I enjoy Rocky, it beat out Taxi Driver, All the President’s Men AND Network. The Oscar went to the crowd pleaser, not necessary the best film released that year BUT at least all of the nominees deserved to be nominated that year.

I agree. The Sting‘s win followed films like Midnight Cowboy, Patton and two Godfather movies. The Sting was a throwback and the last film of its kind to win Best Picture.

I’m just curious not getting on your case, but do you like ANY of the new shows? You don’t seem to like SNW, DIS or PIC from what I can tell at least. Or maybe I’m exaggerating.

The soundtrack just copied previous Trek! Take away all the fanservice and nostalgia-bait and there’s very little left.

Andor is lightyears ahead of anything Trek has done in terms of writing, acting, cinematography, everything. Mando similarly far ahead too. I love both franchises equally, but it’s no surprise Star Wars got 23 noms, the quality is far higher than Trek atm.

👍

Sure thx

Sure, but Academy Awards don’t always honor quality. I mean, How Green Was My Valley beat Citizen Kane for Best Picture.

I did love the look of the Borg Queen and how much she has declined.

I like SNW’s production design. A lot. But I don’t see it as anything that deserves what is supposed to be TV’s highest honor. It’s nice but it doesn’t break any new ground. Now, if someone came up with something that evoked like Ken Adam’s idea for the Enterprise bridge from back in the day, that would be something of note.

Yep!

Yeah, but I can see fuddy-duddy Academy members preferring The Sting because it was a throwback to classic studio films: big stars (in the lead roles), shot almost entirely on soundstages or the Universal lot, aimed at a broad moviegoing public, etc.

I agree. Bad trend to engage with this.

Well it’s not up there with Kenobi and Andor. I’d put it on the level of Book of Boba Fett — does that help?

Nope, go back and look – I loved the first 4 eps of Pic S3, except for the “I lost a knife fight for crack” baddie.

I really liked the score for PIC season three, but I’d say it was more effective than award-worthy.

Kind of reminds me of a discussion a few years ago on a film score board and film score fans love Jerry Goldsmith. The question was: why didn’t Goldsmith win more Oscars? The general sentiment was that when he was nominated there was always a score more worthy of the award, even if Goldsmith’s work was outstanding. For instance, his score for Papillon was one of his best, but he had the misfortune of competing with The Godfather, Part II*. I will add though, while this is basically correct, I thought he deserved an Oscar for TMP. But that movie had two strikes against it: it was Star Trek and it was not well-received.

*When Carmine Coppola won for The Godfather, Part II, Goldsmith actually walked out of the ceremony; he felt Coppola relied too heavily on themes and motifs from the first film for his work to quality as an “original score.” Unfortunately that film was basically the Movie of the Year and was bound to win a lot of awards for that reason alone. He was genuinely upset because he felt his Papillon score was the his magnum opus.

Ahhh, so not only is Picard Season 3 RoTJ, it is mediocre Star Wars too. Ok, gotcha. Thanks for clarifying.

First, it’s I must be the only person making these comments, then it was claiming I was referring to all ten eps, then it was saying it’s all about 90 sec, now it’s claiming you start this “Pic S3 is like SW” conversation between us on every thread and I respond.

Lol – there is a trend here, and it’s not one to be proud of! :-))

Yeah true. But the thing about TOS is it wasn’t “Star Trek” back then. It was just a show on TV called Star Trek. Not a franchise with stigma attached to it.

That’s why I am the single and only person on the planet to make these comments. You’ve got me!

Agree with all of this. I loved the season but yeah it was flawed for sure. But the acting was amazing.

If that’s the only criticism then that’s not bad at all lol. Especially when looking at the huge stinkers of season 1 and 2 which didn’t seem to satisfy most fans. I don’t know if I will ever watch those again just like I doubt I will ever watch season 4 of Discovery again for also being another huge stinker.

Picard season 3 is a huge hit but of course it doesn’t mean everyone has to like it either.

Just sounds like you didn’t like it. Pretty flimsy on the Star Wars comps. The Force-like powers bit, especially, is a real stretch to make your point about the last 2-3 episodes being pure uncut George Lucas.

Yeah, forget about FrankenPicard, Borg-induced zombies, Data re-lifed again, a baddie that looks like a crack attic who lost a knife fight, Picard having a son that looks nothing like him and has a British accent, Force-like powers from Borg brain virus’s, huge spacedocks with many starships run by 3 people, and the entire Starfleet being assembled in one location…no, it’s all just about those 90 sec of course.

And on every thread I make this comment, you seem to be there pushing back on me…
you were literally responding **to me** with this comment you make on every thread

TAS also won that prestigious award back in the day.

There is one Trek animated series that has not won Jack Squat…lol

Exactly!

Despite my many issues with other aspects of the show, I thought the actors brought their A-game this season. (Yes, even Amanda Plummer. Not that I think she deserves a nomination or anything, but, bless her, she was doing her best with an underwritten character. There’s only so much an actor can do to create interest in mystery boxes stretched past their limit in teasing, and this season teased it to an absurd degree. Okay, rant over.)

I said Pic S3 copied ROTJ and was more SW-like than Star Trek like. And no point did I mention that the quality of Pic S3 approached that of Andor. In fact, Andor and Obi-Wan are both demonstrably betters dramas than Pic S3.

So Andor is very good SW, while Picard is mediocre SW.

That’s why!

That’s pretty much it in a nutshell. While members as a whole can vote for best series and other non-specific categories, voting for music, visual effects, makeup, sound, etc. is open only to those who work within those areas. A snub in those categories means being snubbed by your peers.

Well, the one time after TOS, anyway.

When the starting point is to look for everything possible to criticize before the series even airs then, yup, those 90 seconds out of nearly 10 hours of content is practically gift wrapped.

That’s exactly how we got every Star Trek series since Discovery. CBS wanted to make Star Trek TV shows and found concepts that would work within the framework of a weekly series to push subscriptions, but they were all still deeply connected to everything that had preceded them.

Where “Andor” stands apart is that they created a series that exceeded the original intent behind its creation and the expectations of critics, fans and the studio. They created a prequel series that stands entirely on its own. It’s connected, of course, but if you were unaware of Star Wars or any of the characters referenced in this series, you can still jump in and watch. It’s well written, intriguing and compelling and you don’t really need to know jack about Star Wars.

What does me bringing this up frequently have to do with the legitimacy of this opinion? Huh?

I guess that’s all you got since your attempt to suggest I was the only one who had this opinion backfired so quickly.

Again, there are a lot of people who have noticed this and who have brought it up in multiple online forums

Maybe be better prepared the next time you try to single someone out that they are alone in having a point of view (just because you don’t agree with it)?

Wow I didn’t know that actually. But sadly it proves end of the day while being nominated for awards are nice, it will always be about ratings or views that ultimately matters.

All these shows are doing nothing but doing fan pandering though. The third episode of SNW this season when they introduced kid Khan says it all.

But yeah not that surprised about the Emmy’s. Star Trek has been more about technical side of the awards and less a creative or performance side of it with a few exceptions here and there.

What I find amazing is your extreme exaggeration of my point. I have been saying all along that it’s the last 2-3 eps of the season, not the entire season.

And on every thread I make this comment, you seem to be there pushing back on me…which is fine, but you have the same obsessive-compulsive issue here that you are calling me out on, so keep that hand mirror handy.
(-;

I’m not taking away from that. Of course it was unprecedented. I cheered when that happened. That same year Patrick Stewart hosted SNL. The idea of a lead in a syndicated show hosting SNL was also unprecedented. I loved that as well. My only point was that this was the only time in TRek’s history when it matched SW’s popularity.

In the eyes of Academy voters, the shows look pretty and are well produced but they’re not as compelling or as well written as the other nominees. “Andor” stands on its own as part of an established franchise without a lot of critical praise and buzz. SNW and Picard really can’t say the same.

Star Trek’s legacy works against it.

And the way it works for each of those categories, only peers can vote in those areas. Those nominations are not open to the academy as a whole so when you’re snubbed you’re getting snubbed by your peers.

I know it’s easy to just read something and dismiss it, but the idea of a syndicated TV show getting a Best Drama Series nomination in 1994 is/was unprecedented. That it didn’t win is irrelevant. TNG was a unique accomplishment in TV history.

That’s not exactly what happened. Disney wanted to make Star Wars TV shows and they found a story that worked for the format (a good thing they did, too, since the movie they stretched into a miniseries – Obi-Wan – was pretty bad). So, what’s the exception?

Except that some stories work better on TV and “Andor” falls into that space. It was considered one of the best television series of the year long before the Emmy nomination.

Honestly tho? When all is said and done? That is what is most important. Putting an underdog like P+ in the top ten with the big dogs like Apple+, MAX, and Netflix.

An Emmy is not going to change their financials.

And The Sting beat out The Exorcist and American Graffiti that year, two films that were also considered groundbreaking at the time.

That’s fair

It was a fun blockbuster but it was also groundbreaking when released in that it changed how films were produced and presented. It encompassed everything that the Academy was supposed to recognize in filmmaking but gave the Oscar for best pic to Annie Hall.

James Cameron said it best: “This little cute relationship story and Star Wars. What the f*ck are you people thinking?”

Big difference between industry awards and IMDb voters, though. Industry peers, those who know/understand/have actually done the work Trek people have undertaken and deemed *****live action***** Trek work as unremarkable (except for a few makeup and design choices). IMDb voters have no value as human beings.

“Production Design” Thats the problem. Trek as never had a problem in the techical awards. That’s always been what the Emmys use as an excuse.

Truth be told I never expect anything from the Emmys or the Oscars. I put them in the same league as IMDB these days.

I’m not sure I understand your logic. 1. Andor is nominated for Outstanding Dramatic Series. 2. You belive Pic S3 was made in the vein of SW. 3. you do not believe PIC S3 is deserving of an Emmy nod. Would you please walk me through this?

Amazing to take 90 seconds of something and say that it reflects 10 full episodes. That’s just exactly the sort of thing a reasonable person would say.

It’s not just Picard tho, I don’t see SNW or LD for animation anywhere (not just talking about this year).

The difference between SW and ST is the popularity. Truth be told ST only reached the heights of SW when SW went dark and ST was at it’s heights at the end of TNG and that was the ONE TIME Trek got an Outstanding Drama Series nod. And it still didn’t win. But I’ll bet anything behind closed doors the Emmy committee snobs or whatever they call themselves thing of SW and ST exactly the same.

You’re not on every thread making the same comment. UpperDecks-NormalNecks spams every Picard-related post with this comment. Also, if Star Wars is recognized as prestigious enough for awards, then wouldn’t it behoove Trek to copy it? That’s what JJ knew in 09 when he Star Warsified Trek. What Disco and Strange New did in their Warsification of Trek. Terry takes the show from a Chabon/Goldsman “never made a season of TV before” mess back to a space opera and he’s getting ripped to shreds for then reminding people of something that’s way more popular anyway?

100% agree!

Yeah, and it’s also been heavily covered on Reddit and YouTube as well, plus approx 7-8 people here have at least partially agreed with me since the season ended

Tiberius is a great guy, but on this issue his head is buried in the Mudd. ;-)

Not even close.

::deep and abiding sigh:: okay… “it’s a good reminder that as much respect as live action genre programming gets these days, Star Trek is very much not a part of that.”

I guess it’s on me that I don’t think of the animated stuff in the same way I do the live action Star Trek stuff, but all I mean is that despite *****live action***** genre material achieving “prestige” status, Trek isn’t a part of that.

Actually he is not as i too thought Picard S3 had some Star Wars in it’s dna and quite a few fans in the Facebook fan pages and on sites like Trekbbs have also said this too.

Except for Star Trek Prodigy, which was nominated for “Outstanding Animated Series” and won an Emmy for Production Design.

They are. Especially the first one. But then, in my context “prestige” is more about standing in the industry. From that perspective SW has it and ST doesn’t. All you have to do is look at the results – at the 1978 Academy Awards, Star Wars received eleven nominations, including Best Picture and won six.

Then again, The Sting, a popcorn picture if ever there was one, won Best Picture.

We’ll certainly see, but last time around they got only one, for sound editing (for Memento Mori).

Considering how fan pandering this season was, I’m not surprised the Emmys didn’t care much. It was utterly obtuse and boring for anyone not already deeply invested in the TNG cast and 90s Trek.

SNW has fantastic costumes, make-up, and set designs. They should be nominated next year. They’ve done a great job modernizing the look but keeping the sixties vibe. It definitely looks TOS-esque.

All the more reason Prodigy getting nominated in its first season despite the Trek Emmy curse is impressive.

Well, the other part of this is, “Since when has the Emmys been a prestigious award?” A bunch of film people couldn’t get their movies financed so they had to “auterize” the TV space? Conan O’Brien once hosted the Emmys — there’s supposed to be a fun aspect to TV and making TV, which Star Trek has always reflected. I am not disputing any of your notions about Star Wars, but it’s a shame that the most popular movies ever made got bored and decided to bump into the TV space.

You’re the only one dancing to this song, partner.

Trek’s had its share of Academy Award winners over the years. Star Wars has never really seemed “Oscar-worthy” to me. Its a fun block-buster, like the Marvel movies. That’s not a bad thing, but its not usually what you would consider “prestige.”

Awards are strange things. It’s been decades since The Simpsons was a top-caliber show but it still gets what amounts to pro forma nominations for Best Animated Series.

Another reason the show should continue.

God bless you, dude — You keep right on believing that.

So true.

Especially since Matalas just gave us Star Wars like content anyway.

I wouldn’t have nominated it for anything above the line and I have to admit I’m surprised at people acting like this is some huge snub. Were people really expecting massive acting nominations for Picard opposite stuff like Succession and The Last of Us? It’s just not that kind of show.

This is about what I would expect for a mediocre, but fan popular fantasy space opera TV series to get.

ST has never been seen in the same light as Star Wars. But remember, when Star Wars came out in 1977, it was a big deal right out of the gate. George Lucas was an Academy Award caliber filmmaker in those days, and one of the leading directors in the industry. It also had an Academy Award winner as part of the main cast (Alec Guinness). It was hailed as “The year’s Best Movie” in a Time magazine cover story. Star Trek, on the other hand, was an old TV show. This disparity of prestige was there from the beginning and has persisted ever since.

Incredible to think that Star Wars somehow is, though (not disputing you, just can’t believe it)