This week, the second season of Star Trek: Strange New Worlds hits the halfway point with episode 5. We have details along with new images and a clip. SPOILERS.
“Charades”
Episode 5 of Strange New Worlds’ second season is called “Charades.” The episode has a focus on Spock and brings the return of Mia Kirshner from Star Trek: Discovery, again playing Spock’s mother Amanda. At a panel at London Comic-Con, Ethan Peck said this was his favorite episode of the season. It was written by Kathryn Lyn & Henry Alonso Myers and directed by Jordan Canning. It debuts on Paramount+ on Thursday, July 13.
Synopsis:
A shuttle accident leads to Spock’s Vulcan DNA being removed by aliens, making him fully human and completely unprepared to face T’Pring’s family during an important ceremonial dinner.
NEW images from episode 5:
Anson Mount as Pike and Mia Kirshner as Amanda Grayson (Paramount+)
Gia Sandhu as T’Pring and Ethan Peck as Spock (Paramount+)
Ellora Patniak as T’Pril and Michael Benyaer as Sevet (Paramount+)
Gia Sandhu as T’Pring and Ethan Peck as Spock (Paramount+)
Gia Sandhu as T’Pring, Ethan Peck as Spock, Ellora Patniak as T’Pril, Mia Kirshner as Amanda Grayson and Michael Benyaer as Sevet (Paramount+)
Anson Mount as Capt. Pike and Ethan Peck as Spock (Paramount+)
Ethan Peck as Spock (Paramount+)
Jess Bush as Christine Chapel (Paramount+)
Anson Mount as Pike (Paramount+)
Clip:
The latest The Ready Room includes a clip of Spock and Chapel in a shuttle dealing with a rupture in space-time. (Clip starts at 29:45.)
Season 2 episodes drop weekly on Thursdays on Paramount+ in the U.S, the U.K., Australia, Latin America, Brazil, France, Italy, Germany, Switzerland and Austria. Season 2 is also available on SkyShowtime elsewhere in Europe. The second season will also be available to stream on Paramount+ in South Korea, with premiere dates to be announced at a later date.
Keep up with news about the Star Trek Universe at TrekMovie.com.
Good to see Amanda’s back. I was hoping we’d see characters that appeared in Discovery show up on Strange New Worlds. I’m hopeful we’ll see Ash Tyler show up again someday.
Ash Tyler?? No thank you.
Agreed! I hope never to see that character again, and certainly NOT in SNW.
I can take or leave Ash/Voq, but I’m really hoping that L’Rell comes back now that we’re starting to see some Klingons.
+1 for L’Rell – great character
Yeah very disappointed L’Rell hasn’t appeared anywhere yet. The first episode this season was the perfect opportunity and not even a reference.
When did this take on Amanda give birth to Spock, when she was 12?
Mia Kirschner is 49. Spock is 29 in this season.
I was curious so I did some math on this one and it is Spock who’s the odd one out here. Ethan Peck is 37 playing a Spock who is 29.
Mia Kirshnar is 48 which is almost exactly the age Amanda should be whether you’re using her non-canonical birthrate of 2210 or working backward from Jane Wyman’s age when she shot Journey to Babel. I think even this even aligns with Winona Ryder’s age more or less in the 2009 movie.
In this scenario Amanda would be a relatively young mother at 20 but it’s actually surprisingly reasonable all things considered.
So? Take a hard look at Ethan Peck here, that’s all him in that uniform. The guys a stud…
Quinto was born in 1977, Winona Ryder was born 1971.
Whats your point?
Huh? The actress is middle-aged.
Your math is off. :)
Whoops, for Winona you are correct–should have accounted for the fact that the movie came in 2009 and was shot much earlier. I stand by the SNW math though. :)
I was responding to kmart. Your math was fine. :)
It’s pretty funny people are giving you a hard time for this comment but yeah the actors are actually only 11 years apart from each other…and looks it.
All the sadder they didn’t/couldn’t cast James Frain as the Romulan commander last season.
Well, that falls in the same area of why two different actresses play Chapel and Number One, heh.
LOL, I jokingly point that out all the time :)
Heh
Have you ever seen them in the same room together? Every time Number One is about to enter the room, Chapel leaves to make a phone call.
Heh.
Wonder if he’s cosmetically altered to look Vulcan again in these scenes?
Clearly.
Is it possible that he keeps the pointed ears, and just loses the ability to suppress his emotions?
No, the trailer shows him with rounded ears.
I didn’t even have to read the summary. Saw T’Pring and said to myself: “oh yay…another ‘fun’ episode where something happens and doo do doo do to one of them and shenanigans ensue’
I agree, fun is the worst.
We have allotted one hour for recreational activity. Fun will now commence.
I enjoy most of the comedic episodes and Spock Amok is still my favorite from SNW so far.
Yes. Great episode, Tiger2.
Mine too! Top to bottom superb stuff. I’m hoping this episode will match it.
Treating this show as separate canon allows one to enjoy this show better.
Just say “this isn’t canon”.
So I should reject SNW as “authentic” Trek even as I accept “And the Children Shall Lead” and “Threshold” as canon? In what universe does that make sense?
Perhaps the one where you reject both SNW, “Threshold,” and “And the Children Shall Lead”?
The broader point is that there’s a lot more canon-tossing with NuTrek than there is with Berman-era Trek.
We can’t just pick and choose canon. That just leads to chaos. If its on screen, its canon.
“We can’t just pick and choose canon. That just leads to chaos.” –
somebody should tell that to Akiva….
and Terry.
You can, actually. Who’s stopping you?
Said “Warp 14”
I never treat Threshold as canon. None of that ep makes any sense to me. The Doctor so easily reversed Janeway’s and Paris’ condition. If you can do that, just put everyone in status, take the ship to warp 10, go home, cure everyone, done and done. And then long term you’ve got a “spore drive” scenario where warp limitations mean nothing anymore.
That broad point is incorrect. Berman era Trek, and Trek as a whole made only a general effort at continuity. Most of Enterprise ignores canon, that’s four full seasons of exploding canonista’s heads.
But every prequel has basically ignored canon at this point. At least DIS was put in its own time period to do less damage.
Don’t get me started on Enterprise. So much more canon stuff to be worried about with that crapfest than the Kurtzman era shows. And that failed show messed with the Vulcans much more than SNW is doing
To be fair, many view different elements of Kurtzmantrek as a ‘ crapfest’ and ‘ failed show’, interesting how Enterprise, which many people enjoy, can be spoken of like that but kurtzman is above such criticism?
if Enterprise can be criticized other shows should be open to criticize as well.
Enterprise is a great show, especially compared to the likes of Discovery and most of Picard.
*I* certainly wasn’t suggesting that SNW isn’t canon, I was making a point that the OP was getting at that.
By the word’s definition it’s canon since it’s made by CBS/Paramount. A lot of people here don’t seem to understand what the term “canon” means.
certainly not the producers ;)
Untrue. What counts as canon is everything they produce, no matter what universe it’s set in. It’s as simple as that.
And let’s call this “it’s an alternate timeline” / “it’s not canon” what it really is:
Gatekeeping.
I thought we were done with that toxic nonsense after Discovery’s first season, but apparently not. Ugh.
It is canon, though.
Think of everything after Enterprise as taking place on a new timeline that originates with Troi telling Cochrane about the future in First Contact. Don’t think of Discovery and Strange New Worlds as prequels to TOS, but, rather, as sequels to ENT.
I believe it was Daniels who told Archer that changes to the timeline are like waves in the ocean.
With that in mind, think of SNW as representing the tip of the wave washing over canon, a wave that hasn’t reached TOS but just washed over and past The Cage.
In many ways it’s similar to TAS’ Yesteryear, in which Spock dies as a child in the past and is replaced by an Andorian in the present but everything else remains exactly the same.
It’s a stream of some liquid washing over canon, anyway. A kind that is sterile, but I still wouldn’t want to drink it (hint: not kool-aid.)
You are so bad dude lol
I prefer to say it’s separate canon to TOS and Berman era, especially since some of the writing for Spock seems to be an insult to the legacy of Leonard Nimoy and TOS.
Agreed, I’m not impressed with the writing for Spock so far this season whatsoever. He came off in Ep. 4 as a total moron most recently, imo.
Because he made a not-unreasonable mistake in logic while under the influence of radiation that made everybody lose their memories?
how many times are they going to keep going to the well of ‘uh oh! Spock lost his logic again! Womp womp” – how many times did that happen in TOS? 3 times?
Seems like those are the only episodes they watched since it’s happening 3 times an episode in SNW (exaggeration but…)
But it’s not, though. This is canon to what came before, just a different history on account of changes to the timeline.
I think a lot of people here are confused about what the term “canon” means.
It doesn’t refer to separate timelines. It refers to all works that are official.
No matter what universe a show or film occurs in, it’s canon.
Good point! If it’s on tv, streaming, or in the movies, it IS canon. ViacomCBS dictates that, not us. not even the Roddenberry family.
Exactly! That’s why the Kelvin movies are still canon even though they take place in both an alternate timeline and another universe. All canon means is that events in a story are all acknowledged as being part of the same continuity as the others, that’s it. It’s odd some people still can’t seem to understand this and even more so when they say something isn’t canon. If it happened on screen, then it happened, period.
Those claiming particular films or shows aren’t canon are simply wrong.
Yes! If it’s officially released onscreen by the owners of the property, be it Paramount, CBS, Desilu, it’s canon. The fact that there are inconsistencies within canon doesn’t make it less canon; it simply makes it sloppy or cavalier canon.
Or we assume that it’s a fictional television show that they have to update things every now and then the best they can to fit in with both the current storylines and the timeline.
actually…they don’t *have* to do that in terms of story. Only laziness and not respecting the audience’s intelligence is what makes them think they *have* to do that. Or a lack of guts to just say ‘it’s a new timeline’. I think only the most pedantic of fans would insist on the same cardboard and plastic candy buttons as being ‘true’ to TOS but the characters and previously seen experiences (Gorn, Romulan) should be fairly off limits in terms of bending
…but the characters and previously seen experiences (Gorn, Romulan) should be fairly off limits in terms of bending
Can’t quite agree with that. The Gorn (well, one of them) was only seen in one episode and the Romulans in only a couple, so we don’t know much about them at all.
But even during TOS and afterward other characters characters and situations evolved. Kirk went from being stern and kind of humorless (early season one) to fun and energetic and jocular with the crew (rest of season one and season two) to a more formal ship’s commander, somewhat distant from the crew (season three). In TOS the Klingons wore blackface, then they didn’t, then they did again. In TOS they were vicious warriors, but in TNG they developed into kind of noble warriors with a very well-developed code of honor.
yes – not off limits entirely – I was meaning they shouldn’t contradict what has already been done. Which sadly, they seem intent on going out of their way to do
Sure they should, and they need to If it no longer fits the timeline and our history today and is no longer legitimate science fiction in terms of something that could at least theoretically happen in our future.
I can argue the opposite is just as lazy. It’s a preference issue. I prefer the periodic corrections myself, because it helps me suspend disbelief in what I’m watching – that what I’m seeing might (in general terms) happen someday actually, and the present and the past is consistent with today’s history and events
William Shatner, is that you?!? (SNL reference…).
You should have stopped at “fictional television show”. No need to change anything. Changing the Eugenics wars to mid 21st century is pointless when it’s no more going to happen in a few decades than in 1996. It’s not real.
If I don’t like something I ignore it. I don’t give a crap what genius says it’s canon or not. The Titan is an ugly MF and no way it even exists in my head-canon (I hate using that term…) and no way in hell it became the Enterprise G.
So for example, in LDS just because they say it’s canon I don’t take everything literally to be canon. Most is just too silly. There’s a ship called Cerritos, California Class. Officers named Boimler, Mariner, … But the first officer never became a giant disembodied head or any of the other ridiculous shenanigans.
Completely agree. And yeah if people don’t like something, then just ignore it. No one cares, honestly.
And because it’s a fictional television show, there’s no reason why you can’t change it so that at least it remains science fiction in our current reality. That’s what I prefer to suspend my disbelief when I watch the show. I don’t want to say, “what the f*** I don’t remember Khan from the 1990’s?”
Similar to “trust but verify,” I want “science fictional, but verify.”
Khan existed in the 1990’s in this fictional universe, all of this is fiction so Khan ruling in 1990’s isn’t any different than any other plot point. For the Star Trek Universe and characters Khan existed in the 1990’s, just like to use an example TV shows have had fictional Presidents that are different from the actual Presidents at the time.
Hope you are able to see the distinction between the history for the characters in the fictional universe and history for the viewer.
No you’re wrong, and the way Gene Roddenberry set this up there is no such distinction. I hope you can come to accept that
I was just reading an article on this very topic:
https://richhandley.com/2023/06/30/its-been-a-long-road-getting-from-there-to-here/
Nice! Thanks.
Strange New Worlds has definitely made it considerably far more likely that Future Guy was a Romulan, and that was great. I’m hopeful for a payoff to that.
Agreed. Only thing tho, Romunans can’t time travel even by the 28th cedntury?
Good question. Clearly, they possess time travel as evidenced by Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, so either they lost it, or Sera and the others hailed from after the 28th Century.
Perhaps Future Romulan Guy had other reasons of not wanting to go back in time himself other than capability? LIke, if he knows he is altering the time lines it makes sense to stay out of it’s way?
That didn’t stop the other Romulans like Sera, though. There had to be a reason, and hopefully someday we’ll get a resolution on screen. Maybe a movie like the one they’re doing with Section 31.
Thank you for that link. Excellent read! few issues I can’t help but nitpick there tho. Daniels said in the S4 ep of ENT that the timeline was being restored and thus the damages the temporal cold war did never occurred. Now of course, since tomorrow * 3 mentions the war, I guess they retconned that?
The other thing that the article assumes is that time travel is now possible 100 year b4 Kirk. Not true. Yes Archer and T’Pol did time travel, bit never under their own power. They needed Daniels to send them. And Future Guy could only communicate through time, not actually travel through it. Which means the Suliban could not either.
I offer my own perspective that the entirety of ENT is itself a new timeline as the NX-01 was never supposed to exist. We know this because the Enterprise prior to the 1701 was supposed to be a Vulcan like ring ship shown in TMP. I say that the events of First Contatc had such a huge influence on Zefram Cochrane (something Archer himself says in ENT) that he made decisions he would not have otherwise done in the original timeline and now we are living in a new timeline.
Lastly, please note I mean new timeline, not new universe. I still say we are in the prime universe.
I don’t know if I agree the NX-01 was never suppose to exist. Nothing says there wasn’t a ship just because it wasn’t included in some photos in TMP. That’s like suggesting Burnham never existed because we never saw or heard about her mentioned before Discovery. Certainly all of these things are retcons but that’s how it works, especially in prequels. We have to believe they were always there we just heard about them later.
But yeah I can agree it’s all a new timeline. SNW made that clear in episode 3 this season.
I see your point. It’s bad reasoning to assume something absolutely didn’t exist because you didn’t see it before in canon. It’s better to say it shouldn’t exist if it was explicityly stated by Decker these were the ONLY ships to be named Enterprise, which I do not think he did.
And I suppose the logic lines up perfectly. The first space shuttle was Enterprise and the second was Columbia. Ditto with Starfleet.
Still tho, the paradox stuff Seven speaks of in VOY lines up soo well. Cochrane did know the name of Picard’s ship. Troi told him in Montana. And Cochrane, being the drinker he was, gave drunken speeches at univerities speaking of the real events of first contact according to Archer in the ENT Borg ep. I can totally see him insisting that the first WARP 5 be named Enterprise and just using the excuse of the first space shuttle and that maybe it wouldn’t have happened otherwise.
Of course this is entirely just conjecure on my part. My head canon game runs deep LOL
Exactly and Decker never said that either. It would be different if that ship we saw in TMP (can’t remember the name) didn’t exist at all but it’s always been there as well and seen it in models and pictures. So it’s still part of canon.
And I have no issues with your head canon lol. It all makes sense to me.
Thanks :). Of course in canon now tomorrow x 3 told us that the temoral cold war is still a thing and it pushed back Khan to the 21st century. And I guess that means SNW and even ENT post season 2 lives in a slightly altered timeline than the TOS and TNG/DS9/VOY shows and movies. The only real issue with this is that it goes against what Daniels said in Stormfront part II where he said when Vox was killed in WWII the timeline was fixing itself and the TCW never happened. But if SNW is retconning that I will not lose any sleep over it!
Thats what I assume as well, that ENT, and SNW are in a different timeline (and also applies to DIS I guess too) which people have been assuming for years anyway. But SNW just made it clear that was the case.
And while Daniels said that, obviously the effects of it was still there or the Federation wouldn’t have gotten rid of time travel technology in the 31st century and GOF/Carl wouldn’t have ran to other planets. So it ‘ended’ but the effects of it certainly lingered. And I don’t believe you can just reset something completely that ridiculously vast and long lasting, but Star Trek loves its reset buttons.
Agreed. Even way back then I had difficulty believing when they said, reset, everything good now. I’m actually happy it didn’t turn out that way.
I admit to personally having a little trouble with DSC s1 Klingon war and s2 Control war not having being mentioned before Discovery, since each event nearly annihilated the Federation and Starfleet.
Yeah, welcome to prequels lol. And to be fair, we never heard of TCW or the Xindi attack on Earth until Enterprise showed up either. So this is not a new issue and the reason why so many people originally had trouble getting into that show.
I’ve always made it clear if I was running Star Trek, NONE of these shows would ever exist. Not ENT, DIS or SNW. Just keep TOS as your starting base to avoid all these issues and keep going forward from there, preferably after Voyager. But the damage is done now.
I find it easier if you look at “canon” more as a loose guideline than a set of very specific rules that must be followed or there’s “chaos”. In this particular case, there’s just no way you can make a prequel to a nearly 60 year old TV show unless you play a little fast and loose. And it’s still ST.
DIS and SNW are as much sequels to ENT as they are prequels to TOS, and in that sense they’ve worked considerably well.
Indeed, both shows integrated a lot from ENT, which is always good.
It is funny that when you look at ENT, DIS, SNW and TOS, it’s TOS that feels like the odd man out between these four shows only in terms of the level of technology and how advanced it looks. Of course that’s being so much older than these but still.
As for ENT, I’m actually impressed with how well they have kept to its canon. It’s always easier when its a sequel to a show like DIS and SNW essentially are; but I can’t think of a single canon contradiction any of those shows made to that show. But I did think they were going to just ignore everything about the TCW and basically pretended like it never happened since a lot of fans at the time didn’t love the idea. Instead they have adopted it and has made it a factor even to the point suggesting SNW is now living in another timeline due to it. And I have no issues with that if that’s the case.
Definitely.
As for the discrepancy with technology, I’ve seen some suggest that the downgrade in TOS compared to DIS and SNW is due to the events from the second season of DIS with Control.
Essentially, Kirk’s Enterprise is downgraded in response to technology getting out of hand.
I can live with that. We just need to see it on screen.
Yeah I can too, especially once we got spore drives and holograms in Discovery lol. SNW wasn’t ever going to be a complete match to TOS for obvious reasons but it is trying a little harder in that department at least.
But I think ENT, DIS and SNW all fit well enough together even if they all have some wild discrepancies here and there.
The spore drive was explained on screen. It could only be operated by someone with Tardigrade DNA, which is forbidden under Federation law. That’s how they explained the existence of only one.
I know but the spore drive is just waaaaay too advanced in this time period. Think about it, this thing can not only jump to any place in the galaxy in seconds, it can also time travel and jump to parallel universes like the MU. That’s what is insane about this tech, its SO advanced everyone should be trying to duplicate this thing in every way possible. It just doesn’t make sense in this period.
But then they introduced the Section 31 time travel suit which can ALSO jump to other places in the galaxy but through wormholes. And what’s funny about that is they made the suit can only be operated with specific DNA, in this case Burnham’s family.
It’s nice SNW is not going this direction and using absurdly advanced tach that probably wouldn’t show up for at least several more centuries. I can’t think of any new advanced that’s been introduced on that show so far.
This is why Discovery never belonged in the 23nd century.
When you take into account that the downgrade in technology is due to Control, then the advanced technology stops being a problem.
They just need to vocalize that on screen, make it clear that technology went backwards out of concern for it going rampant again like Control did.
I don’t see much connection at all to that failed series. It seems to me like they are largely ignoring it, which is as it should be
What failed series?
ENT – a total cluster-F that the fans bailed on.
ENT was a great series. People bailed on it not because of its quality but because it wasn’t what they wanted it to be, which isn’t the same as it being bad.
Agreed. And I was one of those people who bailed because I was not into the prequel idea at all and it just didn’t gel. But once I gave it a real chance, I fell in love with it. Still far from perfect, but so much better than most of the stuff we got later IMO.
“New Coke” has been trying to reach you on your phone.
It seems they are largly ignoring what DIS established such as the look of the klingons. But it is hard to call a streaming show that ran for 5 whole years a failure. Massive hits like Ted Lasso don’t even run that long.
They are ignoring more than just the Klingons from DIS though, but yeah that’s the most obvious.
Yeah five years is the average run time of what most streaming shows get, which is why I was certain if any show gets the boot first it probably would be Discovery. But five years is good, especially when most shows on that site really only make it 1-2 seasons lol. The ONLY shows outside of Star Trek that lasted more than 2 seasons on P+ so far is The Good Fight. It’s crazy but it’s true.And that went 6 seasons. That’s actually the most successful show on the site crazy enough. I think it was you who said Paramount+ is basically the streaming version of UPN and you’re probably right.
And since DIS and PRO have been prematurely cancelled, people worry about its long term future (and we should) but end of the day, Star Trek will probably still have the most content on that site no matter what, even minus Prodigy.
Sadly though I do think Prodigy is definitely a failed series since it not only got cancelled after one season, a Star Trek first, it’s getting sold off. Also of note, that and TAS are the only shows that got less seasons than TOS did, so that’s a pretty good record overall for all the other shows including DIS. As much crap people give it, there could be worse situations for sure. And there still might be with SNW if that doesn’t last beyond 3 seasons. I am starting to worry about it and LDS future.
Yes despite my personal feelings about it I still do not feel that DIS is a failed show but I think there is little argument that unfortunately Prodigy is. It’s a BIG deal when you not only cancel a show but you don’t air what you have already made AND you yank from the service what has already streamed. I mean there really is only one definition for that sadly.
I don’t think this is the end of nuTrek as we know it, but I do think we are in for a rough ride moving forward. I mean the writer’s strike is not ending anytime soon. As a result of that SNW, as successful as it is will not air a new season in 2024 for sure, maybe not even 2025. The future of P+ as a whole is still very much uncertain. And lastly they have been pretty blunt that they are moving more to a streaming movie model more than a show of the season model like they originally planned.
No I don’t think DIS is a failed show either, but probably not as successful as they hoped either. It’s just mere speculation on my part but they probably did want it to go seven seasons. And as I pointed out, most of the shows on P+ has mostly been duds. Outside of The Good Fight so far, Star Trek is the only franchise that has shows making it 3 seasons or longer.
That’s also why I kind of compared it to UPN, because 80% of those shows only got 1-2 seasons too. You can count on both hands all the shows that got 3 seasons or more and that includes both of the Trek shows. And this was a network around for 11 years. If you include All Access, that’s been around 6 years now but only a handful of somewhat successful shows.
So in that regard, Discovery is a HUGE success lol. Maybe it would’ve gotten cancelled much sooner someplace else but all the Trek shows have been doing well enough at least minus Prodigy unfortunately.
But yeah I am worried. I think LDS and SNW will get the next seasons they were renewed with (and LDS could actually be making fifth season now since I read animated shows are not part of the same guild and why they are still working on Prodigy), but after that? And you’re right we may not get SNW next year at all if the strike goes into the Fall. Maybe out of desperation they will put half the season up and then take a break to deliver the other half later since they did that for both DIS and PRO so they have something for next year. But with so little Star Trek around, 2024 already felt pretty bare, but even more so now.
We could just be getting the final season of Discovery and probably LDS 5th season for all of 2024. Wow, that’s depressing.
prodigy was not renewed for a 3rd season when season 2 was announced and lower decks and snw got renewed for season 5 and and season 3
and season 2 of prodigy is finished but will have to be aired somewere else
I know all of this. My point is it doesn’t mean it’s a guarantee either. This is the same company that advertised season 2 of Prodigy was coming this year a few months ago. Instead they cancelled it and trying to sell it off.
Until these shows are actually made, anything can happen, especially with Paramount’s serious money issues combined with the writer’s strike.
Exactly!
That’s exactly how I see it. First Contact changed everything. That led to the first Enterprise being the NX-01 rather than the ring ship from TMP. ANd of course the Temporal Cold Wars which was even referenced last week.
EXACTLY!
I think the turning point might have been Cochrane hiring Henry Archer to work at the Warp 5 facility.
Except Voyager referenced the events of First Contact being part of their timeline. They called it a paradox.
And the Borg signal sent out in ENT Season 2 is the reason the Borg are already in the Beta Quadrant before TNG.
True, specifically Seven called it a predestination paradox on the USS Relativity. I guess my greater point is that The Enterprise E is the honorary ancestor of the original 1701. And Cocrane was so obviously inspired by Picard and his crew that he chose to name the first warp 5 ship the Enterprise after the 1701-E. So while cronologically the NX-01 was the first, inspiration wise, the 1701 was the first. Predestination paradox.
But even with paradoxes theoretically there still might exist a cause and effect, or rather an effect followed by a cause (with said effect coming from a preceding cause coming from a different timeline before it)
Temporal mechaniocs. They give me a headache! LOL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8loq0T4UhQ
HAHAHAHA
It is an alternate reality. They have obliterated canon. If the stories were smarter and more compelling, I might enjoy it more, regardless of how much they change canon.
Unfortunately while I wish it lived up to the potential more, I see this show as uninspired and derivative of previous Trek stories and frankly they were done better.
It’s a shame because out of the Kurtzman era this show had the most potential.
Last week made me dislike Ortegas even more. The line “I don’t blame Spock, he still has a lot to learn” really annoyed me and the show’s continued obsession of making Spock feel like the puppy to the crew who has to get all that we know about him from humans. As someone said this is like Data starting like B4.
To me it’s a disservice to a character who has been a hero since I was a child. Tired if these deconstructions of iconic characters.
An excellent observation.
Agreed! I don’t recognize Star Trek in this show anymore.
I don’t understand the choice to make this show a CW style drama. I signed up for science fiction, big ideas, and great characters, not Spock 90210.
I think the last part is mostly trying to get younger people onboard who has never seen Star Trek. Lower Decks definitely feels like that lol. Even though these shows take place centuries into the future, they want it to still feel contemporary enough to ease into it easier. I’m not saying I agree with this but I understand it. At least with SNW, they don’t go too far with it like DIS at least.
That’s why when people kept saying you can’t take Star Trek too far into the future (ie, anything post-Nemesis) it wouldn’t work because humans would come off too ‘unrelatable’ which was always a big eye roll to me. And that was because A. most aliens on this show already act as human and relatable to humans themselves and B. Its a TV show, not real life. They can have a ship in the 24th century or the 34th century they are going to act as contemporary and relatable as everyone does in the 21st century today if that’s what the producers wants. And we have seen that in Discovery in the 32nd century. Even Zora, the ship’s computer, acts human lol.
I understand maybe in the real future this could be the case centuries from now, but no one knows. Some fans treat these shows as if they are science fact and not science fiction. Star Trek is not a documentary of the future, it’s fictional entertainment. So they can make up whatever they want. They can say humans act or talk however they like regardless the century.
But I don’t disagree they can at least sound a bit more professional and mature since that is the standard even in the primitive 21st century as well.
Dude,go back and watch The Cage and you will get a clue how emotional and uneven Spock was during this period.
Come on people, know your Star Trek! Seriously it gets old reading uninformed comments like this.
Well said, Ortegas constant quips and, frankly, insubordination is very annoying.
And this new T’Pring looks like Kim Kardashian, rather silly that is the visual they are going for.
Canon is a word I’m not even using with regard to Trek anymore. A different timeline, though, most certainly.
I get confused between alternate timelines & changed timelines in Star Trek.
I think this is prime TOS timeline that’s been altered by the temporal Cold War from ENT.
For example the Romulan agent said she’s been stuck in Toronto since 1992, a nod to the original timeline of Kahn.
You can’t just watch it and enjoy it like a normal person? Odd.
If the writing was better I would love it even more.
Seriously, it would help if you knew the source material better. It’s not bad writing on Spock. It’s you not understanding the source material from The Cage.
I tend to agree. As much as I hate how they are erasing the prior canon with this whole Temporal Cold War deus ex machina, at least now I have a reason to explain why things are different and can just focus on the story they are telling. I just hope there is a long game and plans to reconcile things in some future episode or movie. I just spent the weekend at Ticonderoga on the sets of the original Enterprise. It breaks my heart to think that they are potentially being erased from canon… maybe they will somehow claim it is a separate universe, like Kelvin, but much more aligned with the original Prime universe… who knows. And yes, I do know it is just a television show :-)
LMFAO
Nothing from TOS is being erased. SNW is in a different timeline the way the Kelvin movies were.That’s all.
The word you’re looking for is “me.”
Where were you with this opinion regarding Lower Decks?
You really need to stop missing staff meetings here. Lol
It’s funny being a fan of both Star Wars and Star Trek, and seeing how 99% of the time the former manages to stick to its new canon perfectly well even with all the films, shows and books out… and how Trek can barely get through one episode without torpedo-ing canon in some way.
You must be watching a different Star Wars universe than I’m watching then…lol
Huh? What do you mean? The new Star Wars canon is almost watertight in terms of canon continuity. 100x more so than these new Trek shows.
So does not spazing about canon in general. That bit of reasoning applies to the entire franchise.
Only if you have some kind of obsessive problem.
Happy to see T’Pring back. I love this interpretation of the character, but on the flip side I am utterly uninvested in her relationship with Spock.
Ditto with Chapel. Love Jess Bush in the role but she deserves to be something more than a character who lusts after Spock.
A big part of the season premiere was that Chapel is apparently a war veteran who’s seem some pretty gnarly stuff. I think they’re doing a pretty good job with her.
I have a *really* hard time buying that backstory for Chapel, especially since she apparently dosed herself up on super strength serum to kill Klingons. And still, that doesn’t negate the fact that her storyline in Season One boiled down to “I love Spock”.
But did anyone ever thought Chapel was a hardened war vet in TOS? I don’t mind it, but I don’t buy it either.
Few thoughts.
It’s interesting Pike seems to be preparing steaks since Vulcans are vegetarians.
Are Spock’s ears cosmetic since his Vulcan DNA was removed?
In concept this is very similar to the VOY ep where Tuvok was also attacked on a shuttle and had brain damage that reduced him to a very emotional child with no memory and no logic.
Or, rather, the one in which B’elanna was split between her human and Klingon sides.
Oh good one, I forgot about that ep.
Yeah.
Didn’t realize they did that story on VOYAGER. I remember a fan story from the first NEW VOYAGES book by Bantam that had a scientist split Spock off into full Vulcan and full Human selves as a way of understanding his half-breed child. One of the main takeaways for me was how Kirk feels ashamed when he discovers that it isn’t just Spock’s human half who considers him a friend. It also has a Kipling poem, ‘the thousandth man,’ which very much epitomized the Kirk/Spock relationship for me. It’s worth looking up (the poem and the story.)
Really? I think it was from the first season, or early in the second.
B’lanna got split into her human and klingon halves by the Videans. They did so because there are no pure Klingons in the Delta quadrant (that they yet know of) and Klingon dan they deemed can help cure the phage.
Yep, ‘Faces’, that’s the episode I thought about immediately as well.
Indeed.
Since Spock’s control over his emotions seems to be mostly a matter of social conditioning and practice, I’d expect him to still act like Spock, even with his Vulcan DNA removed.
I adore most of SNW, but I wish they weren’t trying to de-Vulcanize Spock. Not talking about the plot of this episode, but in general; it seems to me that the writers ALL want him to get rid of that pesky Vulcan DNA, but still be the wildly popular character he was in TOS. Sorry, guys; you can’t have it both ways!
Agreed. I got that in season 1 but as the series progresses I would expect to see this Spock progress more and more to TOS Spock, not keep reverting back.
There are still like seven years before TOS; I think Spock’s character arc this season is supposed to set up that exact transition from how he was depicted in “The Cage” to the Spock we know and love. Give it time.
Oh sure. I don’t need a massive jump to Lenoard Nimoy like tomorrow. Just slow progress over time is all.
I’d like to think that this is case, but given Akiva Goldsman’s involvement in this series, I doubt he’s even thought of that.
The show is still following some constraints from TOS. Notice how Sarek isn’t here? Because Him and Spock are not on speaking terms (as father and son) according to TOS.
And there was also a trailer showing Pike with a fleet captain badge, I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the same episode Kirk comes onboard, sticking with the line from The Menagerie
That would be awesome about Pike!
That’s true although it’s funny in Journey to Babel, everyone acted completely surprised when Spock’s parents showed up as if they knew nothing about them. But here is Amanda showing up on the Enterprise years prior. So clearly they knew something about them which was always far fetched they wouldn’t since Spock’s father is the Vulcan ambassador to Earth.
were any of the TOS crewmembers that are in SNW surprised about Amanda?
The point is she is showing up on the ship years before, so it shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone later who Spock’s parents are later when they are so important to Federation politics.
I think this is another case of playing loose with canon. Kirk and McCoy aren’t on the Enterprise for this episode of SNW.
In Journey to Babel, Uhura doesn’t have any scenes with Amanda and while Chapel does, she simply acts indifferent about Amanda. No surprise or familiarity is expressed by her.
I know, it’s still silly. People were also saying Uhura wouldn’t know who the Gorn was because she wasn’t on the bridge in their first encounter which made zero sense to me. And then five episodes later she’s facing them down directly lol. Uhura and Chapel also wasn’t suppose to know who T’Pring was in Amok Time. No one was suppose to know Spock was even in a relationship with anyone and people excused her first appearance in SNW since only Pike knew her, only for all that to fly out out of the airlock once she started showing up on Enterprise multiple times…and in this episode her freaking parents are now showing up on the ship lol. And this is happening years before TOS.
And they already turned the T-Pring thing into a love triangle with Spock and Chapel. That’s literally what this episode is about btw.
This is my only point. People keep saying this stuff while ignoring the fact they are going to keep appearing over and over again for probably the next 5 seasons or however the show lasts and will their interactions with the other characters will only grow like we are seeing with T’Pring now. Amanda will probably be showing up a few times from this point on just like the Gorn and T’Pring is now. The mental gymnastics gets tiring trying to avoid canon contradictions which are clearly there and only grows the more these characters appear.
There’s an easy workaround; Spock is in coma or dying and Sarek turns up to give him a Vulcan genesplice in secret, compelling M’Benga and co to remain silent on this gift. He could even rationalize it away as his ambassadorial duty to help forge a link between earth/fed/fleet/vulcan, tho McCoy wouldn’t be around to call him on it with, ‘in a pig’s eye.’
The ONLY way I can see to make this erratic portrayal of Spock work timewise is to leverage off a throwaway line from TMP when Kirk says that Kohlinahr is a discipline that Spock first broke from ‘to join us.’ That would mean at some point earlier in his life, he was into Kohlinar, then dropped out and went back to Starfleet (presumably around the time of WHERE NO MAN, I guess … might even tie into the teaser exchange between them in that 2nd pilot.) That would provide sketchy justification for KurtzSpock having all these nervous breakdowns and affairs and weirdnesses (including, to show I’m not picking on modern trek exclusively, Ms. Kalomi)
God, I hope that’s not what they’re doing. Then again, these folks aren’t the kind who can recite TMP from memory, so we’re probably safe. From that at least.
That’s one serious bone-in ribeye on the grill. Costco’s been selling huge ribeyes like that recently. Before I became a vegetarian I would have absolutely dogged something like that.
Right? I instantly started drooling seeing that sucker!
it’s probably replicator ribeye. Yum!
Spock is holding up a leafy green in that image, probably to remind Pike.
Ahh good catch
Deep Space Nine used to have an annual tradition of doing “Torture Chief O’Brien” episodes.
I really hope SNW intends to do the same with annual “Torture Mr. Spock” episodes. Love it.
Poor O’brien. They didn’t just torture him, they flat out kicked him in the nuts lol
Well, now I won’t be happy until we get a “Spock Gets Kicked In The Nuts” episode.
Anybody else notice the musical nod to The Black Hole in the clip? Nami Melumad continues to be the unsung hero of this series.
very good catch!
love pike’s green uniform!
The gold piping on it is new, right? It was just plain green last season in Spock Amok… neat
Thats correct, this one doesn’t appear to have the leather running down the shoulders and sleeves
A marvelous sitcom premise from some of the best comedy writers in the biz! Can’t wait to laugh
Wait a tick…
Wouldn’t removing the Vulcan from Spock make him LESS emotional?
Ordinary Human-level emotions should be a walk in the park compared to the Vulcan ones.
Good point. Especially given the modern take on Vulcans as having barely-contained extreme emotionalism. It’s been something of an evolution. In the second TOS pilot and the early “Vulcanian” episodes, Spock is said to just plain lack emotions.
The “modern take” goes back to the 1960s: “Amok Time” and “All Our Yesterdays.”
I’d have to disagree. In Amok Time we see the Vulcan version of a seven year itch, but it’s treated as an anomaly. In All Our Yesterdays, Spock reverts to how Vulcans used to be. In fact for most of TOS, Spock is portrayed as nothing less than the coolest cat in the galaxy, which was a very ’60’s thing, like Connery’s James Bond. Starting with Star Trek 2009, Vulcans are portrayed as having a barely constrained hyper-emotionalism.
Enterprise did it before ST09. But that was explained in-universe as well.
Yes but how would that explain the Romulans? They are Vulcans, just choose to be more emotional (but still more strained compared to humans).
I think we can admit, this stuff was all over the place in TOS. They literally had Spock smiling in the first few episodes.
WOW, excellent point!!!! Vulcans not only have emotions, they have savage powerful ones. They just learned to supress them over an eon or so.
Yeah I always assumed that was the case. Isn’t that the whole deal with Surak who came up with the idea to learn to suppress their emotions because of how dangerous and violent they were around each other?
I think the concept goes back as far as TOS when Spock and McCoy were thrown back in time on some planet to a time before Vulcans discovered Logic and Spock had started reverting to his true emotional self that could kill McCoy in an instant it he set him off in the slightest way. But I don’t think it was truly fleshed out in canon till ENT season 4 when Archer had Surak’s Katra.
Agreed. I think Enterprise fleshed it out really well in season four too.
This episode seems like it’ll make no sense. Removing his Vulcan DNA would not remove his Vulcan demeanor, since his personality is the result of how he was raised. It’s got nothing to do with DNA. That’s like saying that if you altered my DNA to improve my eyesight, I would suddenly be a different person. It’s nonsensical.
But is it any more or less implausible than The Enemy Within? I feel like this episode is a riff on a similar idea.
If “The Enemy Within” had made it about DNA, I’d be in full agreement with you. That episode is different, though–that’s about his personality, not his DNA, being split in half.
That’s a good point. But I’m willing to see what they do with it, but it sounds fun at least.
Did anyone watch the interview where Anson talks about his hair? This the best part!
I’m excited for a Spock-heavy episode. Peck does wonderfully in the part. And I enjoyed the highjinks last season with the body swap episode so I’m good for another Vulcan misadventure.
This could be the episode where Spock and Chapel kiss as seen in the trailer. And it could be dismissed by Spock as him being under the influence of humanity and Chapel only knowing Human Spock which could reference the way she specified she was in love with the Human and the Vulcan Spock in TOS when the tables were turned and she was under influence.
Spock’s DNA was removed? Trek’s playing fast and loose with science again.
That’s not how DNA works, guys….
They done it in Trek before though with B’Elanna in the episode Faces. And didn’t they also completely wipe out Tyler’s Klingon DNA in Discovery as well? They must have since even medical scans didn’t pick it up.
So I think we already far beyond that now. It’s Star Trek, it’s not suppose to always make sense. ;)
The ‘I don’t give a s**t’ part me feels the need to mouth off, if for nother reason there are fans out there that peddle the fantasy that Trek writing is scientifically accurate. They need to be reminded it isn’t…
Also true!
And I hated the Tyler/Voq thing. Not because it made no sense in science, I accepted that from Star Trek since I was a teenager, it just made no sense within the story. But it is what it is.
We have to remember that while Star Trek gets things right sometimes, there is the “fiction” aspect to this being science fiction.
If they could remove his brain, removing his DNA is a snap!
Oh yeah, this episode is going to be chock full of more shenanigans and I am here for it!
But it is funny Amanda will be showing up even though everyone was shocked to see Spock’s parents in A Journey to Babel as if they knew nothing about them lol. More contradictions with canon but not a big deal either, more funny than anything.
Chapel is the only one from SNW to have scenes with Spock’s parents in Journey to Babel. Only Kirk and McCoy act surprised in the episode.
And Chapel wasn’t suppose to even know who T’Pring was before TOS and here we are anyway lol.
My only point is these things gets more and more silly. Everyone should just know Spock’s parents including Kirk and McCoy if his mother is showing up on the Enterprise years before even if they never officially met. I’m going to guess everyone in this episode will just know who Sarek is even if he doesn’t show up either because how could they not?
To be fair Kirk would probably have read a file on Sarek in the Original series before he came on the ship and it would of mentioned he is his second officers father.
That’s certainly true. To be honest it really falls on TOS than SNW, I’m only pointing out SNW isn’t helping either lol. But as said it’s not a huge deal. It’s just hilarious all these people are showing up on the Enterprise so early in the timeline and we’re suppose to believe a lot of them were barely known later on.
I’ll give it until season 4 when we get an episode of the Gorn invading the ship. ;D
Here is a thought….you don’t like the ‘canon’? Stop watching the show and stop getting on here and crying. I assure you they won’t correct it to stop the whining. Discovery is still on Paramount Plus, go watch that. Jesus.
Discovery is pure of heart because it’s made by people who either never liked, saw, or got Star Trek, but Strange New is uglier because it’s barfed forth by some big baby saying, “I loved Star Trek as a kid but I’ve made a better version of it.” I think it’s fair for Akiva’s age cohort to comment on the brown finger paint art he’s making week after week.
Not the place for this, but FYI for ENT fans: Manny Coto just died. My age. THR has story.
Yeah, this is sad news. I’m sure TM and multiple places will make an article about it when word gets out more.
Do we really need yet another “T’Pring and her hinjix” outing? Yawn.
Some of us re looking forward to it.
But some aren’t though, and the actress looks like Kim Kardashian.
So you you don’t watch it, and those of us who want to will, and everybody wins.
It’s going to be a fun romp River Temarc! Get in the spirit!! :)
For everyone who seems to be having an issue with the premise of this week’s episode, this is important to understand:
When we actually meet an alien race with the medical technology to remove DNA from the body of a humanoid without ill effects, when that humanoid happens to be a Vulcan/Human half-breed, and when we actually understand the process and how it works, then you get to bitch about the scientific accuracy.
You will, of course, be expected to show your work.
P.S. Transporters are made-up nonsense too. Hasn’t bothered me a single minute since I started watching Star Trek (and it’s been a lot of minutes, believe me).
P.P.S. Canon is meaningless. Dammit, Jim, it’s a TV series, not a religion.
You would not be enjoying this janky TV series without all the people before you who *do* have religious fervor for it; too, the people who make this show have gone out of their way — when nobody said they had to — to say that it’s connected to the previous show(s).
Variety ran a pretty informative story about the TV industry in general going down the tubes, but what really stuck me were Paramount’s financials:
Paramount Global
Market cap:$10.5 billion
Stock average 1/3 – 5/1:Up 39%
Stock average 5/2 – 6/30:down 32%
Most recent quarter:
Free cash flow: negative $307 million
Revenue: $7.3 billion
2022 CEO compensation (Bob Bakish):$32 million
Warner is looking only slightly better:
Warner Bros. Discovery
Market cap:$30.5 billion
Stock average 1/3 – 5/1:up 40%
Stock average 5/2 – 6/30:down 6%
Most recent quarter:
Free cash flow: negative $930 million
Revenue: $10.7 billion
2022 CEO compensation (David Zaslav):$39.3 million
Apple and Amazon, on the other hand, have trillion dollar market caps so they can weather the streaming storm.
Yep. Time for writing to end as a profession. It had a good run.
Worse than that. According to Deadline, the AMPTP’s plan is to string this along until well into
October in an effort to “break the WGA.” The story quotes a source who said they also plan to get a contract into place with SAG/AFTRA before negotiating with the writers in an effort to pit the unions against one another. Now, this could be nothing but bluster from the producers, but it could be a long time before this gets resolved.
It’s a bummer that writers forced the studios into some bad investments. As Zack Stentz pointed out on Twitter, these are the same people who greenlit $300 million for INDY 5; they should be given the benefit of the doubt and be allowed to fix this. Nobody should be able to earn a living wage from writing for TV and films ever again in order to maintain shareholder value.
Spock’s own Enemy Within.