Part of his big speech to the captured Starfleet folk. Along the lines of, what? you never told the tale to amuse your captaina bout how the enterprise picked up the botany bay, lost in space from 1996 …

My reaction — and this is a first in a half-century of watching this franchise, was “What the hell did I just watch? Who was this episode made for, and why?” Because it sure as hell wasn’t made for me.

Picard has already acknowledged SNW with the appearance of the shows updated 1701.

Frankly I’m the opposite: I hope Legacy acknowledges the changes this series is making to canon. I never liked that people hold every element in the famously slapdash TOS up as some kind of ironclad Bible.

When does Khan say 1996 in TWOK? I’m pretty sure he actually contradicts that date with his comment of ruling on Earth “200 years ago” from the 23rd century.

The hours demanded of VFX folks make it a game for the young, granted. And yet just a few months back, I read someplace about a guy just a few years younger than us, in his mid to late 50s, got his first writing job on staff of a tv series. Of course now I guess that is in peril owing to the strike, but even so …

My then-girlfriend didn’t get it either, even though Spock/Nimoy’s tone seemed arch enough to sell it. It didn’t get much of a laugh in the theater either, but I definitely appreciated the jab (given TVH, maybe I should call it a harpoon) , having spent most of the TOS movie years managing bookstores.

He and his wife just had a baby before production began.

OK I watched it and yep there are definitely some interesting changes lol. Can’t wait to discuss it more soon.

I honestly can’t reconcile if this is the worst episode of SNW or among the best—there’s just so much to work through

Interesting. That was my first reaction, too.

We are also talking about very different eras of TV. In the 50s, I Love Lucy couldn’t show a married couple on the same bed. The 60s, you couldn’t even say “God”. An interracial kiss caused controversy. Saying “Hell” was a strong profanity. The late 80s and early 90s allowed more suggestive scenes and more profanity. Steaming services brought in nudity and regular everyday profanity. Times change. Yes, saying let’s get the hell out of here in the 60s made an impact. I’m 2023, it doesn’t.

Yes, that’s all true. But it just underscores the fact that the TOS movies are a very different beast, made under very different circumstances, than TOS itself.

Just to be clear, “Let’s get the hell out of here” is the only use of profanity, however mild, ever to appear on TOS, and that’s precisely what makes it so impactful. It doesn’t even appear in the script for the episode.

It is easier not to break canon from shows that take place a century from now unlike TOS that is about five years away. But yes, they can still do a better job just by avoiding things like the Gorn completely.

Fred Willard would be worth reanimating for any reason. Do you suppose we could hook him up to that device June Lockhart used on Babylon 5 to drain the life energy out of the villain guest star in order transfer it to someone worthier? We could attach the other end to Donald Trump.

Yeah, not that I’m bragging on it or anything. I was impressed by the AXANAR short, and was further intrigued by Alec Peters’ suggestion that he was going to offer the role of the Federation President to Neil deGrasse Tyson, whom I would have gotten to meet as a PA on the shoot had it gone forward. Say what you will about Peters — who turned out to be a flimflam artist and toxic personality on a cosmic scale — but he does have a certain charisma, and I’ll bet he could have talked Tyson into it.

No, I didn’t get the money back (which you could have bought a decent used car with), but I’m not sure I deserved to, the whole enterprise in retrospect being ethically pretty suspect. It’s one thing to fool around with an existing IP for fun and kicks, so long as you don’t profit. It’s entirely another to solicit donations and sell unlicensed merchandise to further your goals while paying yourself a salary out of those funds (the size of that salary being irrelevant), all while using that IP to build a studio to produce your non-Trek future projects. For all that I found him to be likable and sincere, RMB never seemed to understand why what we were doing was wrong, but I knew the jig was up when CBS announced its lawsuit, which the AXANAR crew reported with a selfie of them eating a very nice sushi lunch that I and the other idiots had paid for, smiling as though they hadn’t a care in the world.

Sorry, let me be more specific… When I say TOS, I also include the TOS movies in that grouping. Bones also say “you are really starting to p*ss me off…” as well as all through TOS… movies… there is a lot more colourful language.

No, Bones did not say “dammit” even once on TOS, let alone all the time. Go on, prove me wrong.

Not in TOS, he didn’t

I had a friend who objected mightily to the notion that hacks like Jacqueline Susann and Harold Robbins would be thought of as literary giants by the 23rd century. Personally, I thought it was hilarious.

Yeah, just keep assuming that the showrunners are going out of their way to piss you off, personally. That’ll surely keep things in perspective.

Already well into middle age, I was studying CGI as a possible second career when Framestore went bankrupt mere months after winning an Oscar for providing LIFE OF PI with some damned fine photoreal VFX of various animals, seascapes, etc. I took it as a sign that, much like traveling the cosmos, making a jump into the arts is a game for the young.

The 2090s, 30 years after First Contact, doesn’t make any sense.

That was fascinating, thanks. Always more to learn!

I always figured that McGivers was killed-off to provide Khan with the requisite motivation for offing the good admiral in the most painful way possible. I wasn’t familiar with the latter part of Rhue’s career, and it’s nice to see that she retained her loveliness well into her illness.

I can’t wait to read all the comments about it tomorrow and during the weekend.

, . … . ! ..
(preceding is a reminder that punctuation is not just your friend, it is a friend to anybody having to try and read the gobblydegook (sic) that you spew.)

I have no idea what any of you are talking about of course but it does sound like something people will be discussing after they watch it as Shane said in the video I posted.

And BTW, if people didn’t watch that clip, he’s actually very positive about it. To him its a good thing and said it makes it easier for him to enjoy the show more. I’m guessing others may disagree with that though. But can’t wait now, sounds like it’s going to be a fun episode to discuss on several fronts. :)

“I agree; please no Khan.”

It’s 2013 all over again lol. Unfortunately they didn’t listen then…

Not….Can!

Let’s get the hell out of here…..

This week only at the Lizard Lounge at the beautiful Perserverance Hotel in New Las Vegas, Mars. No cover charge, two drink minimum!!

I think I know too, but it really isn’t that big of a deal. Star Trek painted itself in a corner during TOS about some things they should have been more vague about or just simply ignored with the later shows. I’m really OK with what they chose to do.

In whatever future nu-Trek made by Secret Hideout there will be it is a certainty they will honor and follow what happened on their shows and blatantly ignore anything from TOS that gets in their way.. And probably to a lesser extent the Berman era New-Trek.

That could explain why I didn’t see it. I do not subscribe to Amazon.

If it is what has been eluded to be then once again I think there was a VERY easy fix they could have done that would literally change NOTHING about their story yet opted not to.

This is, of course, speculation as all I have is what I heard in that video and another source. But based on what we have gotten from SH thus far I find it super believable it is what it sounds to be. And yet another idiotic move by the show’s producers.

I still like his politics, but what he and I consider good Star Trek has radically diverged these past few years.
Truer words rarely if ever spoken.

RMB really had ‘eye of the tiger’ when it came to his treknalysis back in the 90s, but like Walt Kurtz in APOCALYPSE NOW, later his ideas changed and his methods became … unsound.

Wonder if we need to reanimate Fred Willard and send him in to terminate RMB’s twitter feed — terminate with extreme prejudice (not a dig at the Walter Hill flick of the same name, which has long been a guilty pleasure of mine, esp for the Jerry Goldsmith CD that features TWO unused music cues — the best ones on the whole soundtrack — that have inspired me in my writing for decades.)

I just realized what moment RMB is talking about. I don’t want to spoil it but I personally don’t have a problem with it bc it’s something that has already had contradictory info in prior Trek.

As far as Strange New Worlds having anything to do with prime timeline continuity goes, I’m satisfied with just calling this another road taken. Clearly Akiva Goldsman has chosen to prioritize taking canonical liberties in the name of storytelling, and since he is providing an entertaining program, I am good with it. There are some cute attempts to justify changes in established history – a small quip here, a small quip there – and there is some really amazing work done to try and stay true to the course. However once the temptation arises to do something big, Goldsman and Henry Alonzo Meyers have decided that crossing the bridge is worth it, and like I said, the show is good, so its fine.

They can go on calling SNW prime history, but we’ll just smile and enjoy the program. I just hope my main man Terry Matalas stays away from any mandates from Kurtzman that he acknowledges any of this sideways history in Star Trek: Legacy.

I just watched it and have no clue either. Good episode though.

In terms of plot the entire approach is to sprinkle in some ‘fish out of water hijinks’ with a dash of contrivances to just get us to the episode’s climax (they go for it and end up in a place that’ll likely turn some folks sour).

It’s really all a little too goofy, which undermines a truly fantastic performance by Christina Chong. In that sense the show succeeds in giving her a chance to carry an episode (maybe in spite of itself). She’s been a gem and doesn’t disappoint here.

Wesley as Kirk is another story. He just doesn’t quite work in the context of being the same character as Shatner’s. In a weird way, the episode tries to deal with this—similarly to the Season 1 finale—but it remains to be seen if he can actually grow into the Kirk we all know. I have my doubts.

I honestly can’t reconcile if this is the worst episode of SNW or among the best—there’s just so much to work through.

rmb is a fandom mence crackpot he hates on all new trek just like all the other fandom menace youtubers like doomcluck and mecharandomidiot and stevefarts89 and midnightsluge and hell’sbaby and geeks and haters and crittical drunkard and captain hobo april and they are all pieces of garbage human garbage all of them are banned on most large trek fb groups

Makes sense. That’s where I watched it.

Wow more interesting if you say there is no effect at all. Yeah I heard it was up but only if you have it through Amazon which I don’t have.

This is a bit crazy but I just heard it was leaked watching a video from Trek Central. But according to them only if you had Paramount+ via Amazon Prime which I don’t have. I imagine it’s not there anymore either.

Not where I am.

The full episode is up early

I’ve seen the episode and have no clue what RMB is talking about. Of course, you can decide for yourself because the episode is up early.

Yeah I have a feeling you and him would be best friends when it comes to NuTrek lol.

Wow… I don’t know who RMB is but I listened to his interview and I feel like he has hit the nail on the head in this thoughts on SNW. And he echos something that I saw elsewhere as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPWljiWAJtc

Looks really fun and interesting! Hopefully someone from TM sees this put it up in the main article.

I think it’s made pretty clear they will meet Pelia in the past. That’s why they made such a big deal saying that her species secretly lived on Earth until the 22nd century to set up this episode.

The funny thing is while Kirk may not have been the most time traveled as captain overall (that record easily goes to Janeway ;)), he has actually time traveled the most to past Earth out of all of them. This episode will mark his fifth visit. Picard comes in second with three visits. Yeah, the guy definitely gets around.

In TOS, Kirk said “hell” (in City on the Edge of Forever” and Bones said “dammit” all the time. I have no issues with the use of every day language in this or any other show.

Wow excellent point. The fact they weren’t suppose to even be there and wasn’t red flagged totally goes that Kirk knew everyone if time travelers from the future had no problem accessing the bridge.

Chaka Khan Noonien Singh the Singer

I’m literally just going on what was said from people who specifically saw the episode. No more, no less.

I stated one reviewer straight up said in his review of the episode makes clear it leads to some alternate timeline. I thought that was interesting but I also stated maybe he was just theorizing or even a wish fulfillment on his part since I know how much he doesn’t like SNW. So I took that into account.

But then as shown a second reviewer of the episode came out and said the same thing. Now he did not state it as strongly as the other reviewer, but basically implied the same thing.I even left the time stamp of the video I posted so people can watch it for themselves and to decide on their own. But he is only saying this for SNW where as the other is saying this for SNW and DIS (which doesn’t make sense to me either since DIS is now 900 years away somewhere else and a big reason why I didn’t take his words that seriously). I’ll state it again, I’m only basing what people said about the episode itself,I personally have no idea one way or the the other.

And yes, the show IS in the same timeline with the others…until it isn’t. Discovery took place in the 23rd century until it no longer did. In fact, I was one of the doubters the show was going anywhere when rumors started popping up it was jumping into the future. That’s what they are implying, and was changed in this episode.

But maybe not. But the reviewer I posted said that he expects a ton of discussion over the consequences of how things are left off by the end of this episode. Again, watch the video.

Well, using your example, if Admiral Spruance needed to do some fleet captaining, he got his XO to get on the radio and then his command knew what needed to be done. If Starfleet needs Fleet Captain Pike to command his fleet for some task, and Pike is Lost in Space somewhere exploring a strange new world well out of communications range, instead of being somewhere central to his fleet, well, that makes being a fleet captain not much more then a title.

Not sure if it counts, but he didn’t recognize that Sisko and Dax weren’t supposed to be on his ship either.

In Star Trek 4: The Voyage Home, Chekov and Uhura spot the Nuclear Vessel Enterprise at the Alameda port in San Francisco in the year 1986. I believe there was also a NASA Space Shuttle named Enterprise!

It’s not just the name of various class star ships!

Eternia is He-Man
Kobra is GI-JOE.

Clever

Those new Trek shows aren’t being made by Secret Hideout. They can’t change those shows so it doesn’t matter what they say about them.

Regarding your comment that Star Trek Discovery (and all the nu-Trek by extension) being prime, the only evidence we have of that is the producers said it is. Yet the evidence on screen contradicts that. It may be officially but there is little evidence in the finished product to say it is. This is problematic. A carmaker could produce a new model and say it’s got a 6 cylinder engine yet when the customer lifts the hood and sees only 4 they really do have a right to question what the creator said. Especially when it so obviously contradicts what they say. And the creators double down and still insist it’s 4 when the customers know it’s 6. Some might just buy it because they like the company and will treat it like the 4 cylinder engine it is despite what the creators say. Some might react with “why are you lying?” Or, “Screw you. I’m not buying this.”

Which is why it would be best to just consider everything made by Secret Hideout to be reboot. Even their individual shows can be individual reboots if they want so as not be concerned with their own established rules. Although they have been adhering to their own shows far far more than they have to any Trek that came before it seems.

I’m OK with that too. I suspect a lot of fans would be. Make it a full on reboot and non of that canon stuff will ever get in the way. But they keep insisting they aren’t.

No, what AG means when he said he doesn’t want canon to get in the way of story was that he was going to do anything he wanted and damn canon. And that even while ignoring canon his show is still canonical.

Again, that’s just the SNW people saying “F U, canon.” Trek history is not OUR history. Moving the timeline just for their silly episode is truly effed up. And not unexpected from the skill level of today’s Trek writers.

I’m local to the Bay Area and saw all the “cheats” as it were. It was pretty obvious.

I’ve heard tales from people who claim to be formerly connected with studios that there is simply a lot of waste going on in productions today. Waste in that money is being used for procedures or systems that could easily be streamlined or eliminated altogether. I’m not talking about safety sort of things. I’m talking about studio bureaucracy kind of things. And honestly, I can believe them. I currently work in a major industry (not entertainment but similar in size) and I, too, see a lot of waste in my own organization.

In the advertising world, graphic designers are ALWAYS underpaid. Directors get better pay and benefits, still, everyone work over 8 hours, all day, all night, weekends, under a LOT of stress during production.

I bet the VFX industry is in a similar situation. In advertising, designers are the last in line to receive the approved content and they are under a lot of pressure to get it done right away. The day before, if that could be an option. :D

Hope the VFX already have an union. If not, they should unionize. Not fair that all profit goes to few people and the investors. The people who do all the dirty work, the ones who really create all the awe and beauty need more than awards and handshakes.

I remember when Anson Mount joined Discovery. He was so humble and grateful. He used to tweet images of the food provided on set. It was sad. Felt so bad for them. What we see in the front end is not exactly what we see in the back end.

..good grief, a running gag

They got around it a few times by having Picard say “merde” which is “sh*t” in French.

I kind of hope not, since that’s been done twice with Guinan (OK, 19th century in one case) and sometimes I think a cool idea should be left alone and not rehashed.

Discovery has been confirmed by the producers to be in the same timeline as TNG, DS9 etc and even more confirmation with the Discovery episode Unification 3 it has footage of Spock from the TNG’s Unification 2-parter (which Unification 3 is a sequel to) in the episode.

Some people thinking that the SNW showrunners could simply hand wave other Trek shows out of canon(If they want to hand wave their own show out of canon then that is their right) is just people being silly. If they could do that then what is stopping them from hand waving TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT and PIC from canon/prime timeline?

Discovery is prime timeline/canon and that ladies and gentlemen is a fact that has been confirmed multiple times.

Who knows, it still could be! I don’t think it will but it sounds like we possibly have the 29th century time cops, Khan and Kirk all in the same episode. I would love it if Daniels showed up too. ;D

Of course it may not be the time cops (remember how wrong EVERYONE was that Deacon was showing up in Picard season 2….sigh) but you don’t use an image that direct if you didn’t want people thinking about it.

Wow, you were involved in that? Did you get any of your money back? Yeah, I already know the answer.

I really like listening to his take on Star Trek and I don’t even agree with that much of it, but I do like his passion. Every time he makes a video about how modern Star Trek is slowly destroying western civilization, he goes into the same spiel how and why he became a fan and I listen to it every freaking time man lol. He knows how to weave a story, that’s for sure.

He’s obviously very protective of it like a lot of people and why it was surprising he liked Picard season 3 so much since that seems to be the only thing he has liked since Enterprise went off the air. I thought maybe since he came around to that (he liked it more than me and certainly you) he would look at the other shows a little differently now, but nope! ;)

Yeah you’re right. It would be odd if it’s no longer tied to the same timeline when Mariner and Boimler shows up. This is why time travel gives Janeway a headache. ;)

We’ll see how it plays out.

I obviously agree. I been saying forever just call it a reboot and do what you want. But this is probably a better option if it happens and it just becomes an alternate timeline. It’s still not quite like the Kelvin movies since it’s not another universe entirely. Ironically I thought that’s what they were going to ultimately do with Discovery.

So I’m all for it if that’s where they are going and it would be 90% less complaints about the Gorn lol.

Haven’t you seen the Simpsons in London? Don’t you know that it causes bad luck to say “Macbeth”? ;-)

Well, we know from Dulmer and Lucsly in DS9 that Kirk was the worst when it comes to time travel. Therefore…

In the german dubbed version they made a wise decision and declared the eugenic wars in the 2090s. ;-)

Maybe a cameo from Benedict Cumberbatch…. (facepalm) :-)

That’s odd and here is my reasoning why. Let’s suppose that DIS and SNW are in different timelines. But if we are getting a LD and SNW crossover, AND LD is in the sae timeline as the TOS/Berman eras, then that sounds to me like it would be DIS and it’s 32nd century that is gettibg relegated to the alternate timeline and not SNW. Dunno if that makes sense.

Hmmm, I was sure this was going to be Temporal Cold War related.

*walks by, turns around*

…yeth?

Discovery pretty much established that it was in an altered timeline when young Michael Burnham was saved from being killed when she ran away on Vulcan.

I’m ok with Discovery and SNW being in a different timeline.

Macbeth

Does she have a internet show?

Kirk said dammit several times

Know your Star Trek!

chaka khan……chaka chaka khan

Lol

Interesting! I can’t say that I am surprised about your experience. It’s unfortunate.

I know it’s something we have both speculated since, well, quite some time now. Picard S3 essentially reinforces this theory with a museum that contains the NX-01, a TOS Connie and a Liberty class vessel (the Liberty herself) but not one vessel from Discovery or SNW.

This frees up the writers and allows them to take the series in any direction that thy want. This may be what Akiva Goldsman was referring to when he said that canon shouldn’t get in the way of a good story. Set the series in a different timeline and canon is no longer an issue. This is the exact approach they took in 2009 before squandering it.

Lol. He does have a Jim Carey vibe.

I met RMB when I donated three days of my time and a fair sum of money to the AXANAR project (one of my more idiotic life choices; don’t ask), and found him to be both kind and enthusiastic about his work. I still like his politics, but what he and I consider good Star Trek has radically diverged these past few years.

NPR seems to have thought pretty highly of it, fwiw.

Not sure. The dying guy in the clip looks like he is one of those time travel guys in Voyager.

Hopefully when Spock says it, it’s a suggestion to T’Pring, and not an explitive on the bridge!