“Disengage”
Star Trek: Picard Season 3, Episode 2 – Debuted Thursday, February 23, 2023
Written by Christopher Monfette & Sean Tretta
Directed by Doug Aarniokoski
Another strong episode continues this exciting new season with a focus this week on a series of dramatic confrontations, along with some new revelations.
Do you remember what any of these buttons do?
WARNING: Spoilers below!
RECAP
“It’s use and the boogeyman at the edge of space.”
Before picking up on the cliffhanger, we take a brief trip to two weeks ago with Beverly’s son, whose name is Jack Crusher (hmm), trying to talk his way out of an inspection from the Fenris Rangers, who it turns out were working for the season’s big bad. Back to the present: As the Eleos faces that big bad ship, Jack explains to Riker and Picard the Fenris encounter was just the start of a series of different baddies after them, which included Klingons and even some Starfleet guys. Picard soon sorts out they specifically want Jack when they try to beam him out—so they want him alive. With Eleos on its last space legs, the plan is to get Bev’s med pod onto the shuttle and try to get back to the Titan, but the bad guys blow up the shuttle. Things are at a stalemate after Riker ably thwarts an attempted boarding with some plasma grenade action, in between the first of his recurring jabs at Jean-Luc about how there is “just something familiar” about Jack. You think?
Over on the Titan, Seven pushes for a rescue, but Captain Shaw doesn’t see any of this as his business. “They dug their grave…” Ouch. As all hope seems lost on the Eleos with Big Pointy tractoring them in, the guys are resigned to their fate, but BAM… Titan heroships in to break the tractor and transport everyone over; turns out Seven’s final call to Shaw’s ego did the trick. It’s time to meet Vadic, the opposing captain who immediately shows she knows things about Shaw and Picard, needling them both before demanding a handover of Jack, purportedly for the “sizable bounty” on his head. Before they get all high and Starfleety, she points out they are outside Federation jurisdiction and she is armed to the teeth. Team Titan is given a ticking clock so the episode can happen, and to make sure everyone knows how villainy she is, the Eleos is tractored into the Titan, skimming the paint off the top deck as Bev’s little ship is obliterated. Seeing they are “cornered” and after learning of Jack’s extensive criminal record, Shaw is leaning towards doing what the “she just threw a ship at us” lady wants. With Kid Crusher stowed in the brig, Picard is given the hour to find another solution. No pressure.
One more crack about my loyalty and I will assimilate your face with my fist, sir.
“Right here, right now. Make a choice.”
On M’Talas Prime, Raffi has her own problems. News reports say Starfleet has determined the guy behind the attack is some Romulan dissident named Lurak T’Luco. She isn’t buying it, angry-texting her handler who tells her to stand down. She knows this rando Rommie isn’t the end of the story and has a lead on a Ferengi weapons dealer named Sneed, but the mysterious handler makes it clear… “disengage” (episode title alert!). Of course, she is going to ignore that order. Her first step is to meet up with her estranged ex-husband Jay, who it turns out lives on this planet and runs a seedy bar. He is focused on how she is sort of stalking their son Gabe, who wants nothing to do with her, and says she is spiraling again, like the bad old conspiracy and drug days. Raffaela insists she has her s—t together, but after revealing she wants his help setting up a meet with Sneed, he gives her a heartbreaking choice… he will help her connect with Gabe, or with Sneed… but not both. This is one screwed-up family.
Raffi chooses the mission—was there really a choice?—and heads into Sneed’s seedy lair, telling the Ferengi gangster she isn’t Starfleet anymore and has the space gems to prove she is ready to deal. Selling a story of actually working for T’Luco, she wants to know who really stole that portal tech from Starfleet, so yeah, he totally thinks she is still working for Starfleet. To test her insistence that she’s a freelancer, he offers her some space drugs, and she maintains her cover by shooting the sparkly stuff right into her eye, impressing him with her “old addict” control as she sticks to her story. But this Ferengi had her pegged from the start, as he had T’Luco’s head on ice (right next to his vintage soda pop), and informs Raffi her head is next for his collection. Improvising, she stabs him in the hand, but she is way too stoned to escape the drug den, until … BAM… someone starts slicing up Sneed’s goons with ease. It’s Worf! Of course, he is her mysterious handler and today is a good day for the bad guys to die, including Sneed who gets his big noggin chopped off by the Klingon’s cool new sword before he helps Raffi exit with a “I told you not to engage.” And that is how you do an entrance worthy of a warrior.
Fancy running into you on the same planet as my investigation.
“The boy stays here.”
After another jab from Riker to “do the math” on Jack’s origins, Picard dismisses his former first officer and heads to the brig to talk to the kid, calling him a “virtuoso” of thievery and deception. Unabashed and with a twinkle of roguish charm, Jack defends his actions as a doctor willing to break any rule to save lives. The kid cops to running afoul of the galaxy’s gangsters and assorted angry fathers, but he has no clue what the heavily armed Vadic wants. A skeptical Jean-Luc mocks him as a “freedom fighter,” not buying how Beverly would be part of all of this, and young Jack hits back with a crack on how Picard planted roots in his vineyard while everyone else moved on. Wine burn. Things come to a crescendo in this riveting back-and-forth as the older man pushes the younger for the identity of his father. “I never had one!” Ouch. Jean-Luc may not be connecting to this young Crusher, but he is still who he is, determined not to give up his Federation ideals (and betray Beverly) by handing Jack over to a vigilante, but he only has 18 minutes to figure out a Plan B that doesn’t get the Titan crew killed.
Picard regroups with Riker to press Shaw to find another way, but the captain is dubious, questing if the criminal in the brig is even Beverly’s son, which sends Will to sickbay to check in on exactly how sedated she is. While Jack does a classic brig breakout, Picard suggests standing up to Vadic just in time for her to call over and do some serious villain monologuing about why she named her ship after a carrion bird and how she is going to peck and jab “at everything that makes you you.” So, she is a handful. Jack makes it to a transporter room to face off with Seven, and it becomes clear he wants to transport himself to the Shrike to save his mom, a plan Shaw is on board with. Now, finally, Beverly arrives on the bridge and everything stops as she and Jean-Luc have a heartbreaking exchange, seeing each other for the first time in decades, their looks at each other speak volumes about regret and pleading… all without saying a single word. Picard admirals up and orders the transporter shut down. Shaw is pissed, but Picard explains why by saying simply, “because he’s my son.” BAM. The captain now sees how he cannot hand over this legend’s own family to the crazy bird ship people so he puts his crew into action. With time running out, they ring up Vadic and give her their answer with a classic Picard “engage” as the Titan fires a volley of torps and heads into the nebula. Vadic is delighted the game is afoot, cackling as the Shrike follows. Did I mention the cackling? It just keeps coming, even after we fade to black.
I like this new phaser, can I keep it?
ANALYSIS
Ship drama
While not as spectacular as the season opener, this follow-up episode still impresses with a riveting collection of dramatic moments but gets weighed down a bit through extensive exposition. “Disengage” had a lot of ground to cover with the revelation of the main villain Vadic (and her ship), Worf’s introduction as Raffi’s handler, and the anchor issue, Beverly’s son is also Jean-Luc’s son. Covering the strangeness of why she named Jack after her dead husband (and Jean-Luc’s former best friend) is for another day, apparently. As with his season premiere, director Doug Aarniokoski keeps the pace moving using the classic ticking clock formula, going from drama to action to a few lighter moments, although not as many as the previous episode. Things do get bogged down at times with details and backstories being read out loud, with Michelle Hurd given the tough task of running much of her exposition with just a computer as a scene partner.
While there were a few OMG moments with revelations and action, the strength of “Disengage” lies with the performances in a series of dramatic confrontations, including Jeri Ryan’s Seven and Todd Stashwick’s Shaw, Michelle Hurd’s Raffi and her ex (played by Randy J. Goodwin), and every moment with Amanda Plummer’s Vadic. A prime example of this is with Patrick Stewart and Ed Speleers in the riveting scene in the brig as the son denies his father. Jonathan Frakes’ Riker got a bit of action and confrontation too and continues to stand out by adding humor and humanity to things with his little quips to Picard along with way. As for the final scene with Beverly and Jean-Luc, Gates McFadden and Patrick Stewart performed a master class in acting without dialogue. No notes.
Much of this character drama is the kind of thing we may not be used to for Star Trek: The Next Generation characters and the old “Roddenberry Box” rules, but it feels organic with where these characters are now. Shaw continues to fascinate and perhaps even be polarizing. While he may seem overly risk-averse, he clearly cares for his crew, which is very Starfleet. More importantly, both the Titan and M’Talas storylines are connected in how they dealt with the classic themes of family versus duty, with Picard and Raffi making different choices in the end. Stewart’s Jean-Luc Picard and his fight for principles was especially classic TNG, evoking episodes like “Drumhead,” although at times the actor’s voice shows the strain of shooting seasons 2 and 3 back to back.
See that gold ship in the middle… that’s mine!
In between all these character conflicts, “Disengage” delivers some memorable moments, such as the dramatic entrance of the USS Titan to save the crew trapped on the Eleos, along with the follow-up attack of the Shrike “throwing” the Eleos at the Titan. It’s impressive how the show is finding new ways to shake up space combat, even if the menacing design of the Shrike is a bit on the nose. And speaking of combat, while perhaps not a surprise, Worf’s entry into the season was glorious, although cutting off Sneed’s head before questioning him was, if not gratuitous, certainly a convenient way to extend the mystery. We don’t get a lot of Michael Dorn, but so far he looks great and doesn’t seem to have lost his touch with swordwork or deadpan line delivery. Aaron Stanford’s Sneed is also worth mentioning, bringing a nice level of malevolence to this gangster who fulfills the original vision behind the failed attempt to introduce the Ferengi as worthy villains back in the ’80s, although another villain fascinated with Earth culture is a tired trope, especially as the episode double dips with Vadic also indulging with her talk of old clocks and birds. On the subject of tropes, how is Starfleet help “days away” when it took them a matter of hours to get from Earth to Ryton in episode one, even if Titan is an exceptionally fast ship?
I’m getting too old for this s–t.
Need a villain, call a Plummer
Speaking of Vadic, Amanda Plummer seems to be having the time of her life playing this baddie. Picking up on her father’s General Chang and running with it with abandon, she is so over-the-top she can’t see the top anymore. This is a lot of fun for the first time out, maniacal laughing and all, but this will wear thin very fast if we don’t get the promised nuanced and even sympathy for this character.
Even with all the exposition, we still don’t know much about what is motivating Vadic or why exactly she wants Jack and needs him alive. It is clear this isn’t a simple Khan rehash; if she simply wanted revenge on Picard, she could have easily killed him and his whole family. There was still little plot movement this week to connect our two continuing stories, except a hint that the Shrike has the stolen Starfleet weapon locked and loaded, but we are starting to get a sense of there being some kind of network connected to Vadic, even beyond (presumably) Sneed. The episode started with purported Fenris Rangers who were working with Vadic (and call her the “marked woman”) and supposedly they were followed up by confrontations with some Klingons and some Starfleet officers, all tying into Crusher’s warning not to trust anyone, including Starfleet. Vadic is also suspiciously well-informed about the inner workings of Starfleet, which includes detailed personnel files, and there are hints that her network extends to the Titan itself. All intriguing bits, but it would have been nice to get a bit more movement on the season plot in this episode.
I learned this maniacal laugh from my dad.
Final thoughts
Season 3 of Picard continues to deliver what was promised: a cinematic Star Trek story tied into our beloved characters from The Next Generation. With just a tad of concern over potential mid-season drag setting in, anticipation remains high for what comes next, as there are more characters to introduce and plot shoes to drop. Can’t wait.
Will you let me go if I give you this puppy dog look?
BITS
- This is the second episode in a row to start with a character listening to 20th-century Earth music, this time the 1970s rock song “Starchild” by Baby.
- Jack mentioned an attack on the Eleos at Sarnia in the previous episode
- Beverly’s ship’s full name was the SS Eleos XII and it had the designation NAR 59019. According to Jack, it was a Mariposa medical vessel, possibly a connection to the “medical movement” founded by Dr. Teresa Ramirez and Cristobal Rios described by Guinan in season 2. It was also the name of Teresa’s clinic.
- According to Shaw, the Titan has a crew complement of 500.
- The Titan shuttle that Picard stole was the Saavik, named after Saavik from Star Trek II, recently revealed to be the captain of the first USS Titan. Presumably, this means Saavik is dead by 2401.
- According to Seven, the shuttle was “unarmed.”
- The Shrike’s weapons include:
- 40 isolytic burst warheads
- 88 plasma torpedoes
- 236 photon torpedoes
- 18 antimatter missiles
- 20 pulse wave
- 30 series 5
- “Something loaded in primary position in the bay. Technology unknown.”
- Every creepy thing Vadic said about Earth birds shrikes is true.
- Among the planets where Jack was wanted for crimes were familiar Star Trek locations Andoria and Binar III. He was also wanted on Kemiyo and Andreus V.
- This is the first episode to show Raffi’s ex-husband, giving him the name Jay (played by Randy J. Goodwin).
- Worf’s new Klingon sword is called a kur’leth and it was designed by Star Trek vet Dan Curry, who also designed the iconic Klingon bat’leth.
- Sneed name-dropped Section 31, indicating it is still active in the early 25th century, and (as usual) not entirely secret.
- Sneed was another alien character who had a penchant for collecting things from Earth, including a baseball, a hand grenade, and classic soda pop.
- Sneed had a number of head tattoos, which are used to designate rank in the Ferengi Military, mostly seen on Star Trek: The Next Generation.
- Sneed’s known associates included familiar DS9 characters Morn, Quark, and Brunt.
- This episode had a number of connections to 12 Monkeys, starting with writer Christopher Monfette who worked with showrunner Terry Matalas on the Syfy time travel series.
- Sneed was played by Aaron Stanford the star of 12 Monkeys, where he played main character James Cole.
- Shaw (played by 12 Monkeys actor Todd Stashwick) revealed one of Jack Crusher’s aliases was James Cole. The others were Jack Canby, John Carson, and Jarlis Carvel.
- Sneed’s designer drug was named “splinter,” and the method of time travel used in 12 Monkeys was called “splintering,” based on Project Splinter.
- Technobabble of the week: “Reverse tractor beam with anti-gravitational polarity phasing”—spoken by Sidney La Forge, naturally.
One could say Sneed had a head for business.
More to come
We will discuss the episode in detail on Friday’s episode of All Access Star Trek. every Friday, the TrekMovie.com All Access Star Trek podcast covers the latest news in the Star Trek Universe. The podcast is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pocket Casts, Stitcher and is part of the TrekMovie Podcast Network.
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Keep up with news about the Star Trek Universe at TrekMovie.com.
I had a thought that Sneed’s baseball was formerly Siskos! Also, I think I dislike Jack Crusher. The actor performs him very over the top British-cartoony, like a charicature almost. Fun ep regardless!
I kind of like that. What I like most is that he’s very much the way Picard described himself as a young man: cavalier, devil-may-care, a risk-taker with less of a regard for rules and regulations.
Briton here. Disagree. I thought he came across pretty well!
Yea as an American maybe I’m not the best judge lol.
The Jack Crusher actor isn’t good. But Amanda Plummer as the pirate ship captain is hideously bad! Laughably bad!
I think we watched different shows
Nah, same show, just a usual hater/troll/miserable human being
Watch out, homeboy! TrekMovie does not allow personal attacks on other fans. You might soon find yourself on the outside looking in.
And, BTW (unlike you) I use my real name and have been on this site since it began about 15 years ago.
Good for you, I don’t care and neither does anyone else.
I’m glad you speak for everybody else. What an (empty) ego you have.
Lol, at least I’m not bragging about how long I’ve been lurking on a websites comment section as if that means your opinion weighs more heavily on the scope of discussion than anyone else.
I’m not important and neither are you.
But you are name calling. They said they didn’t like some of the acting, so they are being a troll/miserable human being over it? I just don’t get it, why can’t some people simply say ‘I disagree’ and state their reasons why without personally attacking someone over it? And I’m loving both characters so far as many others have stated.
Perhaps because Viper is the “miserable human being”. Sad! Nice seeing you, BTW, Tiger. You are always a positive voice here.
I’ve been poking around since the beginning as well. Trolls are as perennial as taxes and Mirror Universe episodes.
Miserable human being… why? I love these characters but there is nothing remarkable about this show or the writing. It’s not the TNG most of us know and love. Why is the individual pointing that out a miserable human being?
Seriously, Speleers is a standout of the season for me. I really appreciate actors who do a lot of acting without speaking. He and Stashwick both, fantastic actors.
Over-the-top nonsense and a complete lack of gravitas / convincing menace. This is probably the first time I’ve seen a Trek performance in which I thought ‘I could do a better job than that!’. And I am (admittedly) a very poor actor!
Really, you never thought you could do better than anyone in TNG season 1? I echo the sentiment that we are not watching the same show, and you sound rather angry. Relax.
Yes, AP, I get upset when potential isn’t realized. Unforced errors.
Interesting. I found both performances excellent and enjoyed the Crusher actor’s appearance on The Ready Room. I’ve found the acting in the first two episodes excellent.
I think you’re missing the point of Amanda Plummer’s character. She is purposefully completely over the top. She’s the apex of the mustache twirling villain. Now, supposedly, we are going to learn a lot more about her and her motivations. Hopefully that means she gets to continue chewing scenery with aplomb, but that at the same time it doesn’t get old.
I’ve always had a crush on Amanda Plummer. Still do.
Amanda Plummer is a Tony and Emmy winner, revered for her stage performances of Tennessee Williams among many other accomplishments. To anyone complaining about Amanda, you don’t deserve her.
I think she’s more subdued on the show than in the clips we saw in trailers, it almost feels like they used different takes in the ads (which is common), or maybe it just works better in the context of the full eps.
Wow, I thought I was all alone on how ridiculous this show is becoming. I’m just glad that this Worf didn’t show up at Quarks on DS9. I feel like Charlie Brown and this current crop of live action “Star Trek” is Lucy with the football. LLAP Prodigy and Lower Decks
I found him to speak the same way as Shinzon in Star Trek:Nemesis to the point that I thought it was intentional. The tone and reflections in his voice sounded very Shinzon. It would make sense, since Shinzon was a younger Pucard. And since Crusher is the son of Picard…
Frankly, I think he’s a phenomenal actor, and is very much in line with the way Picard described himself as a young man in “Tapestry.” And he’s a much better actor than Hardy was in Nemesis (no knock on Hardy, he’s a heavyweight these days but i’m sure even he would admit it wasn’t his best performance).
No Sneed’s has Babe Ruth on it
Part of me wondered if the Jack Crusher actor was the voice of the Geico gecko. Sounds very similar to me.
What more can one ask.
That nu-Trek before this not be as bad as it was?
This Terry guy does lots of time travel stuff, right? Can he go back in time and knock Kurtzman’s and Fuller’s heads together or something and nip DSC in the bud? And will those time ripples eliminate PICARD s3, or is that shielded from change by virtue of the showrunner himself?
Honestly if they could do that with the side effect being no Picard show but all other Trek shows are good I would take that in a heartbeat.
I’ll ask the zen question: if all the other shows were good, would you like them?
‘Good’ like TITANIC and VOYAGER and ENTERPRISE and TOP GUN and ARMAGEDDON TIME? No.
‘Good’ like LICENCE TO KILL and FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE and DEEP COVER and THE TERMINATOR and THE HOUR and THE WIRE and CARNIVALE and BITE THE BULLET and ALL THAT JAZZ? Yes.
(I gave myself 2min to come up with those as extreme examples of like/dislike. Another 5min and both lists would be much longer.)
I’m confused by these examples, but I guess I see your point? With the exception of The Wire, none of those examples are that special, if you ask me (though I’ve heard Carnivale is incredible, I haven’t seen it).
Frankly, very little Trek has been truly spectacular in terms of brilliant screenwriting, impeccable award-winning performances or sterling direction.
Trek has always been solid sci-fi, with some big, bold, clever ideas, with handful of standout moments that elevate it. At least for me. A lot of people claim it’s been overlooked by awards ceremonies, but frankly I don’t think it’s that much of a miss.
Nimoy is the only one who ever got awards consideration for a performance, and if anyone deserves it, it’s him (though not necessarily for TOS).
Enough of the toxic fanwank.
Looks like “toxic” is anyone who holds a different opinion from yourself.
Makes one question where the toxicity truly lies…
You know that old saying, “if you encounter a***holes all day long…”
Timey wimey is on-brand for Matalas indeed.
What I want to know is why young(ish) Jack Crusher says, when Picard says he’s an admiral, that “History doesn’t remember (him) that way…”
Is this just Beverly’s habit, or is this Jack ‘out of time.’
Interesting. Might explain the age discrepancy.
I took it as a comment that his renown is tied to everything he did as a captain rather than an admiral. Like Kirk.
I tend to form my views of highly serialized shows on a season-by-season, rather than an episode-by-episode basis. And we’re only 20% of the way though season three. Still, a few thoughts on what we’ve seen so far. The purpose of the opening episode in a serialized show is, first, expository, and second, to whet the audience’s appetite for more. “The Next Generation” succeeded in this mission admirably enough: not as well as the superb “Remembrance,” but slightly better than “The Star Gazer,” with which it has a lot in common in terms of pacing and setup. The final verdict will probably depend on how the rest of the reason pans out. I’ll start with what’s worked well: the Picard-Riker dynamic, for one. It’s now one more of equals than of senpai and kohai, which seems poised to lead to tension between the two in subsequent episodes. (I still hope Riker makes admiral one day!) The opener could have done with perhaps one fewer old age joke, but so be it. The bittersweet scene between Picard and Laris in “The Next Generation,” and the final, dialogue-free scene between Picard and Crusher, for another: both nicely understated and poignant work. Lastly, I’m also finding the Raffi subplot surprisingly engaging by the standards of B-plots; where Picard was willing to jeopardize 500 lives on the Titan for the sake of family, Raffi chose duty over her son. Nicely contrasted. Worf’s entry, though brief, was also pitch-perfect, although the swordsmanship was so Elnoresque that I wonder whether the first draft of the scene was originally written for him. And at long, long last, we saw a truly menacing Ferengi, not a Wacky Ferengi (TM) meant as comic relief. Occasionally Quark veered into the former territory, but too often he remained in the latter. (I say this as someone who actually liked the alien, gerbil-like kinesthetics of the Ferengi in “The Last Outpost,” a decidedly minority opinion.) Unfortunately, the rest of “Disengage” was a severe letdown; my initial reaction was, to channel the legendary Tim Lynch’s review of TUC, “good but not great,” but upon a few hours’ reflection, I think even that conclusion may be too generous. “Disengaged” was chock-full of too many cliches that I can’t overlook: – The “unsanctioned mission” cliché? Check. Stories about disobeying orders, used sparingly, can work; but when they sprout like mushrooms over five years of NuTrek, they make Starfleet as an organization look incompetent. A retired admiral, or even an active duty one without authenticated orders, would have no business countermanding a captain’s orders. As I noted upthread, the TNG-era Picard would never have acquiesced to an admiral undertaking an unsanctioned mission for personal reasons; we saw just that scenario in “Too Short a Season.” Shaw, to his credit, saw right through Picard’s scheme, and I unabashedly think Shaw made the right decision in his willingness to extradite Jack Crusher to Vadic. He’s a wanted fugitive on multiple Federation worlds committed to due process. Working for Medicins sans Frontieres doesn’t excuse gun running in South Sudan on the side. I like Shaw. (That said: relegating two Starfleet dignitaries – however much they were abusing their discretion – to bunk beds was over the top. He should be getting a call from Starfleet’s protocol office, if they make it back.) Picard was willing to endanger 500 lives for family reasons, a clear conflict of interest, and one that led to repercussions for Worf in DS9. I hope we see real consequences for Picard, Riker, and yes, Seven and that the series ultimately culminates in portraying Picard as a flawed character. I’m not holding my breath, though. – The monomaniacal villain? Check, particularly when accompanied by a Menacing Ship (TM) that could have come out of a cubist Picasso painting. Plummer’s cackling had nothing in common with her father’s wonderful portrayal of Gen. Chang – indeed, it made her look unhinged. Indeed, the cackling made Michelle Yeoh’s literal hissing look subtle. She obviously enjoyed chewing the scenery, but if she portrays Vadic in this way over the course of nine episodes, well, it will end up reminding me of nails on a blackboard. – The long-lost relative? Check. I don’t know whether they’re implying Speleers’ character is 20 or 34. If the former, he’s just not convincing. If the latter, and Jack was the real reason for Bev’s sabbatical in TNG season two, sorry, but I just don’t buy the fact Beverly could have kept the existence of a son secret throughout TNG. Did her pregnancy really not appear in her official Starfleet records, which Picard clearly perused in “Conundrum”? How could she have kept it secret from Picard in “Attached,” where they literally read each others’ most intimate thoughts? Why couldn’t the Cairn read Bev’s mind in “Dark Page,” when… Read more »
As far as pre-season hype, one thing that definitely affects early reviews is the ability to binge multiple episodes. So reviewers aren’t seeing the episode-by-episode pacing that audiences have to deal with, flaws become minimized because you get right to a stronger moment quicker, etc.
That may be why I enjoyed Picard S2 more than most, because I initially got to see them in three-episode chunks, so the pacing issues didn’t seem like huge problems.
I’d call this pretty fair and measured. No, not anywhere near the worst of TNG or of the franchise, but nowhere near its best either. (IMO, not even the best of Kurtzman-era Trek.) Not exactly what all of the ecstatic type would have led you to expect.
Well that’s because they are going on the entire season or at least most of it. We’re only on episode 2. It sounds like once the big reveal is known, it all really comes together in the end. Now you may not like it even more in the end but many people who has seen it is saying this is just the set up phase and it ultimately delivers. Again, could still disagree but yeah it’s been two episodes.
I can see that they are using most of the S3 budget for the CGI which is great as i love space ship scenes.
Shaw is such a jerk i hated how he called Picard/Riker a bunch of Relics and how he dismissed 7. Yes i know the Titan-A is a exploratory vessel and isn’t armed well as other vessels but Janeway/Voyager crew went into more dangerous situations and they were on an intrepid class ship and they also were alone in the Delta Quadrant.
Love the character of Raffi and it was pretty obvious that her Handler was Worf.
Loved how 7 stuck up for Picard and stood up to Shaw. She would make a great captain in her own show and that was a cool shot of the Titan-A coming in for the rescue.
So we finally meet Vadic or Captain Vadic i should say i immediately got Nero/Shinzon vibes from her. Amanda Plummer seems to be a good actress (this is the first time i have seen her in something) and it’s cool that she is Christopher Plummer’s (General Chang from ST6) daughter too.
The Shrike is exactly like the Scimitar over equipped with weapons lol and sending the Eleos crashing into the Titan is something that Nero/Shinzon and even Khan would think of too. I do find Vadic a bit over the top but that is normal for villains in fiction lol.
Worf’s entrance was cool and he is far more violent then we have seen him in the past with him cutting bad guys heads off.
It was obvious that Jack was Picard’s son especially when Picard said in the first episode that he didn’t need a legacy but looks like he is getting one now with Jack.
Great seeing Picard in Admiral mode and Shaw showing some sense finally and Vadic is a nutjob and again i find her a bit over the top and i do find her a little Khan in her but she is more closer to the likes of Nero and Shinzon imo.
Overall another really good episode i did enjoy this as much as the previous episode i just hope that this season can stick the landing like the 1st and 2nd seasons did and both were some great Trek.
I also don’t think that Vadic is the true villain of the season i think she is a cog in a much bigger plan designed by someone else maybe even a group of factions that want revenge/Destroy the Federation.
Perhaps Shaw has lost his First Crew when he was not Captain yet. So he has perhaps some PTSD keeping his Crew alive and out of Trouble. I hope that Picard do not need to take him out of Command. But he needs Riker for that as Proof. But let’s see
I also speculate that this Portal technology is an byproduct of this Episode with this Sub-Space Universe hijackings. Some Engineering ignored the Warnings and find them and perhaps conquered this Little Bubble on the Other Side and learned how to create these Portals now. So this building travel trough this thin layer of their Sub-space Universe and directly returned back, just on different Space. Perhaps this Space on the Sub-Space is even Remote Controlled trough the right Sub-Space Frequency for Ill doings now
‘Perhaps Shaw has lost his First Crew when he was not Captain yet. So he has perhaps some PTSD keeping his Crew alive and out of Trouble. I hope that Picard do not need to take him out of Command. But he needs Riker for that as Proof. But let’s see’
After Vadic’s comments on Shaw’s psychological profile i think Shaw indeed lost a lot of fellow crew members in his past and some people have speculated that he was a young officer who survived Wolf 359. Which would explain his dislike for Picard and 7 and maybe he blames Riker for not doing more(don’t know what else he could of done) to stop the Borg cube before it encountered the fleet at 359.
‘I also speculate that this Portal technology is an byproduct of this Episode with this Sub-Space Universe hijackings. Some Engineering ignored the Warnings and find them and perhaps conquered this Little Bubble on the Other Side and learned how to create these Portals now. So this building travel trough this thin layer of their Sub-space Universe and directly returned back, just on different Space. Perhaps this Space on the Sub-Space is even Remote Controlled trough the right Sub-Space Frequency for Ill doings now’
You could be right away it will be interesting to see how the rest of the story turns out.
PTSD? Psychobabble comes to Trek analysis! LMAO. Did Kirk also suffer from PTSD, worldwidedepp? After all, Kirk blamed himself for the loss of the Farragut. And does Burnham also suffer from PTSD? After all, her actions led to the Klingon war and the loss of many Starfleet lives and ships. Etc.,etc.
Please respect the others. and do not laugh over them, thanks
PTSD isn’t psychobabble. Stop demeaning others to get your jollies off.
Dude, PTSD is a very real thing. You don’t have to like Picard, but that doesn’t mean you can be a complete ass and demean others in the process.
‘Dude’, I was criticizing the overuse of psychological terms such as PTSD to mis-diagnose the motivations of fictional characters such as Shaw. Shaw’s position / actions during the ep. are very logical and defensible.
Calling “PTSD” psychobabble is ludicrously offensive, and someone using it to speculate on his motives is not a problem. Take the L and move on.
I think Shaw is a lot of bluster but I expect as the season progresses we’ll find him to be more likable unless of course they kill him off and continue the series with Seven as Captain.
I definitely like Shaw.
Riker would have had no patience with someone attempting to use his ship without proper authority.
So. If Shaw had left these two to their fate. Many fans would become like “no one expects the Spanish Inquisition” users with torches and pitchforks and would claim his head
:)
I like Shaw. Where are you coming off? Shaw’s actions have been very logical and defensible. Unlike Picard’s.
I don’t think he means “likable” in that sense. He means the character is a jerk, and unlikable in-universe. Which is the point. He’s supposed to be the character you love to hate. He treats people with a lack of respect, he’s pompous, rude, and downright nasty.
For obvious reasons, I love him.
I like him, too, just as I did Lorca. Discovery would have been watchable seasons 3 and 4 if he had stayed.
It might have been better, but not sure i’d have stuck around.
Hmmm…Lorca was the epitome of the “mustache twirling” villain.
That’s how he ended up. But if he wasn’t that…. If he were the the intriguing character he was set up to be… Then yes that element of Star Trek Discovery would have been interesting. Slowly peeling away at that onion had such amazing potential and was something we never saw in Trek before. But they decided to piss all that away…. But that is an old story.
Shaw isn’t wrong though.
And that’s exactly what makes him so unlikable and compelling! We don’t just hate him because he’s nasty and rude, but because he’s RIGHT to be that way.
Riker always had a more laissez-faire attitude for a “military” officer. But Starfleet wasn’t the military technically. People like Jellico and Shaw? They don’t like that, and perhaps rightly so.
Characters like Jellico and Shaw are meant to rub us, fans of Riker and Picard, the wrong way, because they treat characters we like poorly. Yet, they are also supposed to irritate us because they’re not wrong. It’s brilliant.
I’m not saying Jellico was an influence on Shaw, but there’s obvious parallels.
Conversely, I loved Shaw, and I think he was absolutely right. Everything we’ve been told about Jack Crusher is that he’s a wanted criminal on multiple Federation worlds, including Binar and Andoria, where there is presumably due process. Picard is barging on to the scene unwanted, acting out of personal feelings and contrary to duty. When Adm. Jamison did this to Picard in “Too Short a Season,” Picard quite rightly saw through it, and Shaw quite rightly shut it down here.
I’m at a loss as to how a *retired* admiral, acting on a personal mission, can override a ship’s captain. Perhaps that was a “heat of the moment” thing. Picard seemed to outrank Adm. Satie in terms of commanding the Enterprise (although not in terms of investigative procedure) in “Drumhead.”
I suspect the much-ballyhooed Picard-Riker conflict may also come down to Riker siding with Shaw next week. I hope so. Picard is placing his personal interests above those of the Titan and the Federation. I also enjoyed the contrast between Picard and Raffi: the latter did her duty.
The one thing he was wrong about was demanding Seven use her human name. That’s not her name anymore, and he should respect that, and that element was well-done, because it establishes quite a few things about his character, and also helps us dislike him, as we are intended to.
I don’t think he was wrong even to refer to her as Cmdr. Hansen. There are no doubt many Starfleet crew who have lost family, friends, and shipmates to the Borg over the past 20-or-so years. They have every right not to be exposed to PTSD by constantly being reminded of a Borg designation.
I get that this argument may clash with the “never refer to someone by a deadline!” view. In the real world, many liberal Russians are anglicizing their last names, eliminating their family names from e-mail addresses (e.g., Ivan Ivanov suddenly becomes Johann Johnson), and so on to distance themselves from Ukraine.
“They have every right not to be exposed to PTSD by constantly being reminded of a Borg designation.”
I disagree, but even if I did, that right is superseded by Seven’s right to be addressed by her chosen name. By your logic, she should have to forcibly remove her facial implant, even though she needs it to live.
I have family who’ve suffered serious PTSD, from war and other traumatic life experiences. And most of them accept that triggers for them exist out in the world that they cannot avoid because of other people’s right to exist.
Shaw’s demand to may be the result of PTSD as you say, but that doesn’t give him the right to use her deadname. Very clear trans allegory here, too.
I’m just going to go out on a limb here with a theory that Jack Crusher is a hybrid of Jack Crusher Sr. and Picard’s DNA. Then it would make sense as to why Beverly went off the grid for 20 years, messing with genetics like that. I could be way off-base, and no biggie if I am, but just thought I’d posit that theory, take it or leave it.
Really getting to like Shaw, by the book but also with a flavor of that ‘cowboy diplomacy’ we’ve seen over the years in our favorite captains. Rightfully concerned about his crew, but grudgingly he’s along for the ride once the Beverly/Jean-Luc moment and realization passed (which gave me chills). That was a pretty gripping scene, there.
I think the Raffi B-story is pretty decent. It’s building her broken character in a convincing way, and you get a clear sense from her Ex that she was a world of trouble prior to the events in this show. It’s a good way to remind the audience addiction is no joke, and its ramifications run deep and far. Sneed was a very effective little villain for a moment there, nice to see a grimy, backhanded Ferengi again.
But then Worf – right on! My only complaint was they showed his attack on the guards partially through Raffi’s drug-addled view, so it was blurry. I wanted to see him beat some A like that clearer! And when they played the iconic Klingon theme as he helped Raffi up – again, chills. Excellent way to bring him back into the fold.
Pretty darn solid second episode, in my opinion. Again, watched on my phone here at work, so looking forward to seeing those ship battle shots and Worf’s carnage better on my proper screen later.
A second viewing is in order tonight at home, for certain. And perhaps with some Romulan Ale (or my equivalent). Really enjoying the season early-on here, looking forward to more!
Somehow the gallery is going to cheer decapitation scenes (for the record, I have no problem with them), but argue that the eyeball scene ruined season one.
I wonder if an early draft of this episode featured Elnor rescuing Raffi.
Severed heads seem to be two or three levels down in graphic gore from extended eye torture scenes in an abbatoir.
Agreed. There’s a reason that episode was TV-MA and this one TV-14.
It only gets better from here, folks.
Agreed
I should hope so.
Wow, I never realized that, but you’re right! Good eye. I think you may be right.
I don’t understand this response lol.
He’s just trying to be cute. And he is!
Yeah reading it back now, I see it. I thought he might’ve just responded to the wrong post or something.
It will only get better if laughably bad Amanda Plummer exits soon!
how about you exit the internet and get a life.
Ah, the good ‘ol days of razzing Star Trek fans on Usenet with “get a life” return. Joy.
Yep. folks like ‘Riker’ can’t make a cogent argument so they resort to juvenile insults.
So you’re ok for the nasty retorts, but when someone gives it back, you get your panties in a twist. Predictable.
Not sure why you’re surprised to see theatrical performances in Star Trek.
She’s delivering what was asked, no need to downtalk her craft.
The villains are the parasites from Conspiracy. That’s why their network is so extensive.
I truly hope so. I have loved that episode since I was a kid when it came out. That last scene where you hear the beacon calling out into space… chilling. Too good a thread to have dropped for over 35 years.
I used to love that ep as a kid (hey it was dark and violent, cool! said ten year old me), but more recently saw a review that picked it apart, and i’ve come to reconsider it.
The point was made that it was WAY too early for them to be trying to do something so drastically different and dark, and that having the threat be against the Federation as a whole would have been better served happening after years of stories that better established the organization in TNG.
I think the idea has a ton of promise, but it was let down by being in the first season for those reasons, and the general weakness of the early years. It also feels like a story that would have fit much better in DS9’s first or second season: a darker show, and after 6 seasons of showing of establishing the world more concretely.
I hated it at the time — not because it was dark but because it was silly and the effects were distractingly terrible – even for 1980s TV.
I hope there’s more to it this time around.
We’re owed a pay off on that.
That would have been my hope but I’m doubting it because it would just be too right a story line (if done right which of course, there are huge doubts for) to pick up on. It’s just too hard to see Secret Hideout getting so many things right.
Matalas seems to know what he’s doing.
It’s only two episodes. Sure, it may look that way but this is Secret Hideout. The odds of the show running off the rails remains high. But give credit where credit is due… Two decent & promising episodes in a row I think has only been done once. And these two were better than the other two.
I haven’t seen anything from Secret Hideout that makes me question their knowledge of Star Trek. What they’ve done has been and continues to be considerably better than what Abrams did in the movies.
Definitely agree with this and I generally liked the movies.
Thanks.
I actually have seen things that shows they really don’t have a handle on Trek. A number of things. They may be aware of the happenings in some episodes but they haven’t shown that they really understand it. Their bizarre use of the Guardian of Forever comes to mind. And there are others. I honestly don’t see much difference in Trek treatment between Kurtzman’s Secret Hideout Trek and Kurtzman’s KU Trek. The two are connected.
There was nothing bizarre about their use of the Guardian of Forever, actually.
It was odd that the Guardian now suddenly not only planet hops but has a guardian (the guardian of the guardian, LOL). And then they decided, only because they needed a plot device for it and were too creatively bankrupt to dream up their own method, to suddenly give the Guardian the ability to portal people not only to the past but between realities. And the only argument in favor of such changes is “it was never specifically said the Guardian COULDN’T do that.” Which while true I find such arguments can be used to explain nearly ANY oddball use of established canon. So yes. I found the Guardian alterations to be bizarre.
I can attest that it’s 6 fantastic episodes in a row.
Awesome.
It appears the show is already running off the rails in Secret Hideout fashion. Picard ready to sacrifice an entire crew for his “son” he just met. Extremely uncalled for levels of violence from Worf. Beverly Crusher with her best Sarah Connor impression. Insubordination for 7 and a Star Fleet Captain that is so incompetent that he allows his number 2 to basically mutiny without consequence. I don’t recognize these characters I knew and loved from TNG and DS9. I’ve tried to be patient but this seems to be just another continuation of Picard Season 1 and 2 (which I could not even finish).
Fair enough. I don’t have great affinity for the TNG characters so if they greatly fluctuate from where they ought to be I rarely see it. The only thing I thought was a bit odd was seeing Crusher involved in a shootout. And being a better shot than the thugs shooting back. But that’s a standard trope that I’ve just gotten a little numb at. The rest, apart from some convenient plot inconsistencies, seems OK to me thus far. If the show goes off the rails then these inconsistencies will just serve to show us how crappy the show was. If the show ends up being decent then they are reduced to mere nit picks that all shows/movies have. Even good ones.
But your take is just as valid as any other. Don’t let some of the bullies tell you otherwise.
Absolutely agree! And I am also starting to think there is some tie-in coming with the Mirror Universe. TNG never got that chance, so I think it’s coming…
I hope so! That would be great.
Let’s all sit back and just appreciate what a wonderful time it is as a Trek fan that we can speculate on storylines. Let’s remember in 2016, when Trek was not yet on TV again, and now we are blessed with so much to consider!
Definitely.
For some who could only be 19-ish years old, Jack seems very mature – Beverly Left the “E” in 2379, She and Picard last saw each other in 2381….
I had said it previously. Having an actor in his mid 30s trying to present as a 20 year old isn’t convincing.
Patrick Swayze as a high school student in RED DAWN. Vic Morrow and Sidney Poitier as high schooll students in BLACKBOARD JUNGLE. Yeah, that ‘trick’ usually induces laughter in me.
It wouldn’t be the first time in a production. I’ve seen obvious 26-32 year olds playing high school kids so very very many times I’ve just grown numb to such things.
Reminds me of a fantastic line from MST3K when they screened “Teenagers from Outer Space”. When they came out of their space ship one of the robots said, “Wow. Really OLD teenagers from outer space.”
I don’t necessarily love that, but in fairness (1) it’s hard — not impossible, but hard — to find really convincing high-school aged actors, and (2) the difference between 26 and 18 is a lot less than the difference between 35 and 20. It’s not beyond questions that a youthful-looking 26 year old could pass for 18.
(Indeed, as a college senior, I went to buy something at an electronics store, and the sales clerk treated me in a ridicuously familiar and jovial way, even play-punching my arm. When I paid, I showed my college ID…the clerk went white as a sheet and apologized, saying he’d pegged me for a high school student…)
Wow, pretty much had the opposite experience. Never had any trouble buying cigarettes from the local StopNGo convenience store starting at age 15 or 16, and was always able to order Long Island Ice Teas at Denny’s (that location served them in those huge bellows shaped glasses, so you’d be getting about 2.5x the volume of a typical LI IT with each single order) from about age 18 onwards, without ever getting carded.
Seemed like growing a moustache (which I hoped looked Conneryesque, circa A BRIDGE TOO FAR, but tended to make me resemble a bandit from TREASURE OF THE SIERRA MADRE), really did the trick in making me look at least 10 years older. When I was 25, I returned my 22 year old girlfriend’s video rental to a store that employed a former classmate of hers, who somehow took me for being Abby’s father! I shaved the moustache off a couple weeks later (a lot of the black hairs had suddenly started growing in red of all things) and everybody thought I was my actual age again. Yet to this day, anytime I look back at film from when I was that age, I don’t see what the stache did that made such a difference to people.
The flip side is that it is pretty rare too. Finding competent 20 something actors who look like high schoolers.
I like the actor — he’s pretty solid on “You.” But, yeah, they may techsplain away the age issue.
The casting of this has been awful, with Amanda Plummer as the worst.
You and I are watching different shows, Bud. I think the acting from both Ed and Amanda have been great. Amanda Plummer is a fantastic actor. Sounds like you are just reaching for things so you can hate the show. Or perhaps to get attention and provoke.
It’s not the acting, it’s the writing.
Absolutely. They definitely wanted Ed to be Picard Jr.
I don’t think he’s 20. The actor was actually born in 1987, which in a 1:1 relationship of on-screen to off-screen years, puts him just 1 year older than when McFadden/Crusher was off screen for a year. I think it’s likely that Jack was born during that year.
if he is actually supposed to be somewhere around 20-25- he has gotten into a tremendous amount of trouble in a very short timeframe. And is Jack Crusher a doctor or not?
I’m hoping we get an explanation.
He said in an interview today that his character is 23 so he’s definitely born post-Nemesis. They just cast someone way too old for the part.
It’s not convincing with UHD and breaks the fourth wall for me.
Never go see a play! Seriously, the audience’s bar for acceptance are way too high these days. A few wrinkles and it takes you out of it? Yikes!
When I was 13 i knew a kid in my middleschool with a full beard. I had a coworker in my early 20s who easily could have passed for 35 (his going bald at 19 didn’t help).
People age differently.
The casting this season has been tremendous, from Stashwick to Speleers to Plummer. I think they’re casting based on talent, not look. I can see past a slight age difference because Speleers is so good in the role.
Meh – they’ve lived a rough life on the frontier. I can buy that it added a lot of years to his face.
I ultimately wonder if that’s going to turn out to be the character’s age. He appears to have had quite a long “career” as a rogue out there in space… to only be 20 years old.
So, Picard and Crusher did it, or Picard is helping Crusher out of Trust and hope that She will tell him the Truth later.
But i think that this Son Secret need some time to sink into many minds. Well, let’s see how this goes on
Nah, that spinning DNA strand in the credits is a clue. This guy is a result of some 24th century genetic f**kery…..
That’s what I’m thinking as well Phil.
Interesting. This makes me wonder again about connections to “Schisms,” where the aliens might have extracted said DNA. It was never explicitly stated that Picard or Beverly were abducted, though.
The timeline for Jack being Picard’s son doesn’t make sense to me, but I assume more things will be revealed over the remaining episodes. It’s also kind of a lame plot choice that’s very Wrath of Khan.
That is an issue for me. The “long lost son” thing. We saw it with Kirk already in WoK. The only difference is that Kirk was aware of David’s existence the whole time. In this case Picard, presumably, was not. This is along the lines of seeing the Enterprise get destroyed again. It just has a ‘been there done that’ feel.
It’s a real cliché for sure, but one lots of writers seem to be unable to avoid. I mean, that kind of story almost writes itself.
Okay, I’m not the only one feeling the Wrath of Khan vibe here…..
Matalas is like JJ, who can’t come up with an original plot / concept. Instead, he cherry-picks and reuses elements from the past.
Sadly have to agree with this issue. I don’t understand these people’s obsession with that movie. But I’m not going to judge it too much now until we know the whole story.
Thankfully I have to disagree. At some point, it stops being “unoriginal” and becomes “this is just the kind of story Trek always does.”
As it stands, there has been so much Trek, it’s going to be next to impossible to tell a story that isn’t compared to something that’s already been done. Broaden it to sci-fi as a whole, or all entertainment, and there will never be anything truly new.
I’m not even sure this is a criticism. Plenty of homages, retreads, and recycled plots have become incredible films, TV shows, other stories.
There are hundreds and hundreds of hours of Star Trek for literally decades that isn’t tied to that movie in any way. In fact, it didn’t really start until Nemesis came around and then every Kelvin movie. Suddenly every villain had revenge on their mind with big ships and some bioweapon that can literally destroy a planet or a civilization. This wasn’t some continuous ‘retread’ until the last 20 years or so.
And on top of that we now have constant references to Khan with him literally showing up in STID (well, close enough I guess ;)) and even having one of his descendants serving aboard the Enterprise which still feels unnecessary and forced. Again this obsession with him and that movie wasn’t so blatant until the modern era of Star Trek.
JJ films were just generic action movies so of course they had big bad revenge driven villains. I’ll agree on Nemesis, and that the obsession with TWOK is stupid (I don’t even think it’s the best of the Kirk films)
Prodigy has a revenge driven villain, but I don’t see many people complaining. Plenty of episodes of Trek had revenge driven villains. When it’s good, nobody complains.
Btw, if you think Trek producers are obsessed with TWOK, wait till you talk to fans.
Besides, this season isn’t really even influenced specifically by TWOK as much as it is the style and tone of the TOS movies in general. When we get further in, you’ll start to understand why Vadic isn’t Khan and I don’t think they’re trying to evoke him either.
As it stands, I’m obsessed with episode 4. Some of the best performances by one of the old cast that might be their best work ever in the role. I couldn’t give two s***s if the season was copying TWOK though, because the season is good. Like I’ve said, if it’s good, doesn’t matter what it’s copying.
Right now, just praying the final 4 episodes hold up to the first 6.
They were generic action films all focused on another Khan, that’s still the issue. What’s funny is there are articles here before the first movie came out where Kurtzman described Nero as the next Khan and compared the movie itself to TWOK.
And then, what did they do with the next movie, they literally put Khan in it and redid the ending to TWOK. You say Nemesis being too focused on TWOK was stupid, which I agree. But I think STID literally using Khan and lifting direct TWOK elements including dialogue was even more stupid. ;)
And I didn’t say Prodigy. That’s not following that template at all. The Diviner is not out for revenge, he’s trying to save his planet from being wiped out in the future. I wish the movies had a character with even half his dimensions.
And I know Vadic isn’t Khan. Other people who watched the entire season months ago has confirmed it. I was worried she would still be a generic villain but that doesn’t seem to be the case either thank Kahless.
And in this case, we’re not even discussing the villain angle; we were talking about the baby mama out of nowhere scenario that happened between Picard and Crusher like it happened with Kirk and Marcus in that movie. It’s just the constant callbacks in general that was being brought up.
And obviously I’m enjoying the season regardless. You know that because you responded to both of my thoughts on the last two episodes. I was just making an observation.
Yeah, but even TNG did the “son out of nowhere” once before with Jason Vigo… they did it with Worf and Alexander, with Data they did a “mother out of nowhere” and they did the “sister out of nowhere” with Troi.
I think the story here makes sense for Picard’s character arc, frankly, and I have no problem with it no matter how similar it may be to a previous story.
After all, how many “virus on a ship” episodes have they done? How many “character becomes a reluctant mentor to a wayward orphan” did they do? Trek isn’t exactly known for its originality.
Yes but A. that wasn’t even real with Vigo and B. we never saw the woman he supposedly had the relationship with. This feels specific to TWOK for a reason.
Worf was different too because we at least saw them have a relationship before Alexander showed…and it wasn’t over 20 years later. ;)
And you’re reaching with Data lol.
You seem to take some of this stuff a little too personally. No one is telling you to feel differently about it, we’re only saying why we have the issue. But I already said it’s not a huge deal, I’m only saying I wish there were less callbacks to that movie specifically. But I said in my OP I’m not going to judge it until we learn more. Most of us already knew this was coming, and not happy about it, but now that it’s done, we’ll have to see how it’s treated. You obviously already know and seem fine with it, so maybe I will agree with you in the end.
lol you think I take this personally. whatevs, my dude.
Maybe that’s the wrong wrong word, but the way you are arguing with everyone here who only has slight issues with the season so far seems like it, but you’re much better over people who had issues with SNW.
I’m also not reaching with Data and Worf. Because i’m not making a direct, 1 to 1 comparison, i’m using them to illustrate that these are simply the kinds of stories that Trek has always told.
Yes, there’s clearly influence from TWOK, but there’s also a ton of influence from SfS, TUC, and lots of influence from individual episodes of TNG.
If you want to gripe that it’s unoriginal, that’s one thing, but the bigger fact is, Trek is rarely original.
Besides, The Orville is nothing but a copy of Trek tropes, and everybody seems to love that.
Honestly, you know what I think it is? I think fans of TOS/TNG just want Trek to be flat and evenly lit like an old, retro TV show.
I genuinely wonder if it would be universally loved if it just had cinematagraphy from 1990.
Nah, I’d still say that — up to this point, mind you! — it’s been cynical and over-praised and fairly pointless. But it’s always a sign of having a serious argument to make that you feel compelled to inform others of what they truly think.
Exactly! That’s the point.
We’ll have to agree to disagree over the reaching part then, because the two aren’t nearly the same. Picard finding out he had a fake son that was created by a Ferengi to get back at him is not remotely the same situation here.
This is a direct callback to TWOK. This entire story line started by Beverly trying to reach out to Picard for help just like Carol Marcus reached out to Kirk. They both had sons working directly with them and has animosity to Starfeet and no idea who their real fathers were. It’s as clear as day. Data finding out he had a ‘mother’ is not a callback to TWOK in any way, shape or form. No one has suggested those examples as parallels to TWOK because they aren’t. This case clearly is.
“Yes, there’s clearly influence from TWOK, but there’s also a ton of influence from SfS, TUC, and lots of influence from individual episodes of TNG.”
And no one said otherwise. I’m guessing by the time this season is over there will be call backs to TOS, DS9, VOY, ENT and several other films as well. All we’re saying is TWOK already gets it so much it’s a little obvious and tiring to some at this point, that’s all. But as also said, we haven’t seen enough of it yet so it may end up being really good.
“Honestly, you know what I think it is? I think fans of TOS/TNG just want Trek to be flat and evenly lit like an old, retro TV show.”
I don’t know where you’re getting this since most people here seem to like the season so far. Some are just noting issues they have with it like every show or season. None of seems to be a big deal as you’re suggesting. This is why I said you seem to be taking it a little personally. Most people here seems to be enjoying the season, right? We’re just discussing some of the issues so far like every show just like issues people had with TOS and TNG btw. I can’t think of a single show today that didn’t get criticism of some kind, can you? See my point.
“I genuinely wonder if it would be universally loved if it just had cinematagraphy from 1990.”
I think more would like it better if it was as bright as the shows in the 90s. ;D
So he’s doing what the nu trek haters want then.
Basically
Yes, this is so weird to me. On one hand, today’s trolls will demand X, Y, and Z, and then when they get it, claim they wanted A, B, and C, or what they REALLY wanted was X+1!
I don’t think there is such a thing as “nu-Trek haters.” There are, however, a number of “bad-Trek haters.”
That’s no different from what trek fans have been doing for years with those awful fan movies.
The most hilarious one to me was Axanar. A terrible fan film that was a docu-drama, a mockumentary of sorts. It was dark, moody, gritty, and about a dismal war… yet it’s biggest fans decried discovery for being dark, moody, gritty, and being about a dismal war.
Not to mention that Axanar was incredibly poorly written, badly acted, and looked like garbage. I’ve been a critic of discovery, but in every measure it outshines every fan film, particularly Axanar.
I think the producer realized what would rock is a TOS motion picture series with Saavik on the Titan (and David Marcus) and trying to glue that to TNG. Ironically best TNG in years.
Loved this episode. I think I’ve re-watched Worf’s entrance five times now. Lol. And I want more Captain Shaw and Commander Hansen. Let’s have Star Trek: Titan as a spin-off series.
From reading and imagine the Fans reactions, it feels like the Scene with Seven using her Rifles to Blast the Bad Guys in the bar…
Seven and Worf are not “Batman”. But please do not let them walk the “Dark Robin” path. This would break a little inside many hearts
Yes, the best moment in the episode! I loved it!
So far fan reaction is not at all what I predicted. It seems that for all the protestations of not wanting too much fan service, the moments that were the most fan service-y are the ones they love most!
LOL the entire season is nothing but fan service. What am I missing? Once you accept that, then you just hope it’s good.
Yes. Inherently, reuniting the TNG crew is itself a fan service-y premise. But individual moments that lean into nostalgia seem to be the most loved moments.
Yeah, that’s why they are there lol.
It’s only when it’s done badly that people complain about it, ie, the TWOK elements in STID. But when it’s done well, then it’s usually a win.
They been coasting on nostalgia from the fourth season of Enterprise to now. It’s weird to me people are arguing which show is doing ‘fan service’ when to me with the exception of Discovery being in the 32nd century, they all been pushing fan service and nostalgia. The only argument is some push it harder than others.
Oh, i’m totally with you. I just think it’s ironic because a lot of the griping has been at the “member-berries” through Seasons 1 & 2 (among other things too of course).
Okay, I’m liking this season, but with a lot of caveats.
Gone are the days when I can watch Star Trek with my kids. I great up watching it– loving it– as an 10 year old kid. Those days are gone. That’s sad to me.
This is Picard’s unknown son. Sigh.
Ship hits the Enter– Titan. Picard asks, “What just happened.” LaForge, “They threw a ship at us.” Really, writers?
Shaw isn’t looking like a competent captain. He’s not in command at any moment, taking no actions, simply sitting back bitting his fingernails, blaming others for his actions.
Previous episode, tells Picard he’s a “retired admiral.” This episode, more than happy to let Picard take command at the end. (Probably so he can blame him later)
“Help is days away.” Really, cause they left Earth and it seemed like there were several other ships there. And, it seemed like it only took a few hours for the Titan to get there. Or, did Shaw sleep for days?
“I’m not risking 500 of my crew for two/(later) one man.” Isn’t that reasonable? Isn’t that the right call? How can Picard in good conscience risk the lives of 500 people– sons and daughters all of them– to protect his son? Especially when he actually IS a criminal? Isn’t that the definition of privilege?
Titan shows up. “We’ll beam you out!” NO ONE– Picard, Riker or Picard, Jr– think about the transport inhibitors??? And add to that, doesn’t Picard shoots one of them ON THE CONTAINER BEVERLY is in???
If they do continue the voyages with the crew of the Titan, I really hope they lighten the bridge up so you can actually see more just floating heads and displays.
Finally… trying to lose the bad guy in a cloud. Again, really?
Sounds like I hate it. I really don’t. I’m along for the ride. I’m just saying they haven’t given me a reason to overlook these issues.
I would have no problem watching this with a ten year old. When I was a kid, TNG had sex scenes and talk of r*pe gangs.
Agreed. The “family friendly” crowd ruin everything with their absurd, fragile and arbitrary rules that they insist on righteously imposing on everyone else. Just like all the complaints when Disco used the F-word. Boring. As if language is bad? They would reduce everything to an episode of Barney or Mr. Rodgers.
What happened to the generation that watched Robocop at 8 years old?
We use to watch Robocop in class when I was a kid.
Look, people can listen to what they want to listen to. Generally, we want a society of people who want to get along with one another. Part of that is trying not needlessly to offend others. You state, “As if language is bad?” Well, there are certainly derogatory ethnic descriptions most of us would say are bad, right? So, language can be bad; at the least offensive. You may not be offended by the F-word or GD, but some of us are. They don’t make a show or movie any better; they don’t improve the drama. I’ve never heard anyone say, “Hey, Picard was pretty good. But, you know what made it so much more dramatic? The F-word!” The story is just as good without those words. Watch Casablanca or the old Mutiny on the Bounty. Those weren’t episodes of Barney or Mr. Rodgers. They are classics.
But, hey, that’s my opinion. At the end of the day, Paramount can do whatever they like with its shows. I’ve got my opinion, you’ve got yours. Isn’t that what IDIC is all about?
If you’re offended by “damn” then most Trek is unsuitable for you. Post TOS, it’s all over the place, from the movies to TNG, DS9, and beyond. Enterprise used the A-S-S word!
Language evolves. I’m glad we’ve evolved out of using a lot of derogatory, ethnic slang, but Trek has always pushed the envelope in terms of acceptable language on television (rarely at the forefront, admittedly, but they did do it).
This is nothing new, is the point.
Except that I recall people saying just that about Data’s “oh, shit!” line in GENERATIONS.
I actually like the use of the F word in Picard S1. Far from being thrown in haphazardly, it was meaningful: it showed how far Picard had fallen in Starfleet, that the admiral would speak to him with profanity. With one word, we see how they have almost no respect for him.
I don’t have an issue with the language, though if Picard starts calling Vadic a nasty old c*nt I’ll revise that assessment.
The gore is where I have reservations. Bloody decapitations, gory impalements, an eye getting ripped out while a character is still alive and screaming? That’s legitimately crossing some lines for kids I think. A rape scene in Disco season 1? Crossing a line. Mugatos jerking off in a cartoon? Raises an eyebrow, surely.
At the same time, sure I liked the PG-13 take on violence in First Contact and Enterprise. I can’t help being thrilled to see Worf finally being unshackled from years of bloodless batleth battles. I do appreciate some edge.
It’s just that a lot of these decisions are the producers shooting themselves in the foot for later, I think. Star Trek’s appeal as largely family friendly fare really added to its emotional appeal and longevity. I loved watching it with my mom. Kids have grown up and then come back for reboots and to share the franchise with their own kids to recapture those experiences in some way. I don’t want to stifle creativity, but watching a topless Klingon rape Ash doesn’t strike me as a a fun memory kids and parents will look back fondly on.
All valid points you make.
#nomorefloatingheads LOL
Those are all valid points. I particularly found the “days away” thing funny. The Titan got there in like 5-6 hours. From EARTH. He is saying the ONLY ships available are even FURTHER? Weren’t there a bunch there getting ready to be part of a parade? Wouldn’t there be at least ONE patrolling that sector? At the very least closer to them than Earth? Again this is a thing the KU did. Play fast and loose with galactic geography. They needed the edge of Federation space to be really close when they were going there and now the plot needs them to be alone so help suddenly becomes “days” away. All for no reason. Even the “we’re the only ship in the quadrant” trope makes more sense.
And yes, the darkness of EVERYTHING, not just the Titan, is still a major irritant.
Throwing a ship at them is visually neat but not a very practical weapon I should think.
I do agree that Shaw made the right call to turn over Crusher. I am only hoping that the decision Picard made isn’t ONLY because he’s his son. There has to be more.
And like you, I do think these first two episodes have been decent. Steller by Secret Hideout standards. So a lot of this is just nitpicking. If the overall season is good a lot of this stuff can be blown off as not that important.
Id also like to point out from my personal level that I picked up a different casting device and it seems the interface is functioning a bit differently. I don’t know if this is a casting device thing or a new P+ thing. But during the credits there is a countdown to start another show before the credits are complete. I thought auto play only led you into the next show and when there was no next it didn’t force you anywhere. Is there a way to stop that irritating countdown to a show I have no desire cut to? This is yet another reason why I really don’t like streaming.
Not sure what interface you’re using. I subscribe to P+ via Amazon Prime. You can make the countdown disappear from the credits by pressing the BACK button (it looks like an arrow pointing left) on your Amazon firestick device. Yes, I had to watch the credits three times before I figured this out. :)
I’ve tried hitting ALL the buttons on the fire stick remote. The only one that works is the one to take you out of P+. But I kinda would like to finish out the credits again now that the episode was decent. I’ll try to remember to hit that one first next week. Perhaps the order screwed things up? Who knows?
Exactly. Except that, so far, I am kind of hating it.
The best Episode of the Whole Picard Series so far. It’s only getting better.
I enjoyed seeing Worf for a second, and the destructive use of a tractor beam was fun. But honestly, that’s all I enjoyed about the episode. Disappointing after last week’s opener, but oh well, on to next week.
Hardly the first time we’ve seen a “repulsor beam.” Indeed, a 14-year-old Wesley used one in TNG’s third episode, “The Naked Now.”
Still, I can’t recall anyone throwing one ship at another just for giggles. That was the fun part.
They also did it in “Deja Q” to move the descending asteroidal moon.
Guys, I’m not claiming this is the first time this tech has been used, it’s just something I enjoyed about the episode. Like Worf, not the first time we’ve seen him either but still enjoyable.
It was also done in Cause and Effect to push the other starship!
Thank you, Memory Alpha.
This is the highest compliment I could ever receive :)
Really liked the first two episodes and I’m keen to see the rest of the season. The characters are interesting and likeable…even Shaw (he’s right most of the time!). So that’s a good thing. But up till now it’s basically a Wrath of Khan rip off. Guess next week we’ll have a 1 on 1 ship fight in a nebula. Not very creative…
Since I couldn’t sleep after this episode, I was up to the DS9 Season 5 cliffhanger, “Call to Arms” wherein: leaving a baseball means something between adversaries – and risking a crew for your son simply isn’t done. Sisko made his sacrifice overt: he wouldn’t risk his crew for Jake. Really, a striking difference in storytelling.
Given producer promises of true military discipline this season, a question: in what Navy can an old retired admiral pull rank and put everyone’ life at risk? And if so, why didn’t Picard do that honestly, and before? And safely? If he can order the ship around, surely he could have ordered a security team to join him when he and Riker took the shuttle to the Elios.
I get that the son could be hidden or disguised, but all her NGO-activity points out that it is impossible for Picard to have no idea what Beverly has been up to. Whether it’s because we all keep track of significant others and friends, or it’s because she’s been doing the same thing he has with the Romulan refugees, more or less. Did the supernova happen after she had gone rogue? Why didn’t she help him? Moreover, Starfleet would have mentioned it to Picard – and probably not in a congenial way. It’s a little hard to watch well thought out heros walking through their lives so unconsciously.
I still enjoyed it, but this is likely going to be another season which will likely play best as a breathless binge-watch or rewatch.
“And if so, why didn’t Picard do that honestly, and before? “
Crusher said “no Starfleet,” hence the subterfuge.
So Riker literally brings Starfleet in during the first episode– and Picard lets him. Spot on observations, Trek in a Cafe.
I didn’t say Riker’s plan was good. But they needed a fast ship, and they didn’t know who to trust. Using Riker having a slapdash plan as an excuse to not enjoy something is…certainly a choice, but I often wonder if a whole bunch of y’all have met Star Trek before.
The more I read comments from fans, the more I conclude they have a different set of criteria for new shows than the old ones, that’s for sure.
Nope. I’ll overlook slapdash plotting in service of a story that I otherwise find meaningful. Picard hadn’t gotten within a light year of that, though it could still happen, who knows?
The fact that you responded tells me a lot.
Let me reiterate, and you cannot refute this, because it is a personal belief: The more I read comments from fans, the more I am 100% certain they have a different set of criteria for new shows than the old ones, that’s for sure.
In other words, you know what I’m thinking better than I do. Sure, that’s rational.
On the contrary: Trek in a Cafe has a valid point. TOS and TNG mostly respected the chain of command and showed Starfleet obeying orders, rather than running off on unsanctioned missions at the drop of a hat, rather like wayward Trump children working at the Trump Organization.
Picard would *never* have tolerated a retired admiral acting as he, Picard, did here. We know this because those old shows depicted Picard in *precisely* the same situation. In “Too Short a Season,” an admiral (apparently active duty, but elderly) jeopardizes a diplomatic negotiation by taking a de-aging medicine out of a desire to prolong his relationship with his elderly wife. Picard was sympathetic, but certainly did not let the admiral command the ship.
In “The Drumhead,” Picard commanded the Enterprise despite the presence of Adm. (Ret.) Satie. Satie clearly had subpoena power for the administrative investigation she was running, but she didn’t command the Enterprise. And the active duty admiral who showed up at the end clearly had the authority to overrule Satie.
There are other examples, such as Adm. Quinn in “Coming of Age” or the badmiral in “Ensign Ro.” Probably more.
I’m really, really getting tired of this “unsanctioned mission” trope. Done sparingly, it can work, as in “Amok TIme.” Buy between multiple examples with Michael Burnham and Georgiou, Pike and the Illyrians, and now Picard, it seems that Secret Hideout can’t think beyond it. PICARD at least as a captain in Shaw who seems willing to push back on it.
Well said.
The old guard TOS fans were just as harsh all through the nineties about the Berman era shows.
They just got drowned out by the newer fans for the most part. Paramount did however repeatedly try to placate them with riskier, more adventurous set-ups for DS9, Voyager and Enterprise. The hard core ones were never satisfied.
LoL. Right!?!? I still think this season is a follow on to Conspiracy. And perhaps Beverly knows she can trust Picard because he is now synthetic and perhaps resistant to Conspiracy symbiotes. Maybe? Just an idea.
Sorry, but this is a series that did show us Picard knows the difference between Starfleet and “former Starfleet.”
So the only conclusion I have at this point is that Picard didn’t believe Crusher was threatened in a way where Starfleet couldn’t help. In which case, I guess, we will see that thrashed out between them when she explains the conspiracy.
But if Jack is “illegal” in the Federation – then Beverly, after all this time, was being quite selfish in asking Picard to put himself in danger to rescue her.
After all this time, she has no other friends? After doing all this good stuff on so many planets for 20 years?
“After all this time, she has no other friends? After doing all this good stuff on so many planets for 20 years?”
Star Trek is full of the main characters doing things because they’re the main characters, even when it would be more appropriate for a specialist of some type to do (insert thing). So, yeah, Beverly calling Picard makes perfect sense, not the least of which because it’s a damn TV show.
Sorry, Star Trek is a moral playbook, and that’s what creates the drama. If Beverly Crusher has no friends because “she wanted to hide a secret son” – this whole season will be the sorriest trope in male-writing room narrative character-massacres.
I mean, if you don’t get why she called Picard by the final line… I don’t know what to tell you.
Not only that (and I totally agree with you) but the episode makes PLAINLY clear by the end why she chose to call Picard. No spoilers but… don’t miss the forest for the trees just because you might want to nitpick (there’s plenty of other more valid areas to do that)
Actually, nothing is clear. That’s why we will watch next week.
Very true. But I think there’s enough to infer that she has real reasons to only trust Picard, at least such that it’s not worth seriously questioning.
….. um… why are here?
Can’t tell if that’s a joke. If so, i laughed. If not, my point was that nitpicking — while fine when valid — is not necessary for that issue. There is a reason, and I think it’s pretty plainly stated.
I am joking. That’s why at the end of my first post, I did say this will likely “as advertised” be best viewed as a binge-watch. ((And also yes to ML31 below.))
I also mean: of course they want us to ask these questions. That’s “audience engagement.”
Well then kudos, I laughed!
Then why did he accede to Riker’s plan, which called for doing the exact thing that Beverly asked him not to do?
Exactly.
Part of the problem with releasing individual episodes on a weekly basis is it gives viewers a large opportunity to pick the show apart. Some things work better when viewed closer than 7 days apart. One doesn’t need to binge 10 episodes at once but watching 1 or two episodes a day brings the viewer more into the story. It’s why most other shows like that I usually wait until all episodes are available or nearly done so I can watch them at my own pace. I’m a big Trek fan so I instinctively want to watch this stuff immediately. And honestly I don’t think that helps these shows very much unless every single i is dotted and every single t is crossed. Which is rare even outside Secret Hideout.
I enjoy the episode a week model. Very traditional broadcasting. I enjoy the anticipation of the release of the next episode. I think of a show like Lost and how less enjoyable it must be for a first time viewer to binge it and not spend a week in between episodes debating references and theories. Even if it didn’t stick the landing, the journey was a heck of a ride. Heck, the months in between Best of Both Worlds Part I & II were agonizing for TNG fans in the pre-Internet days. I enjoy the occasional binge watch and understand it’s changed the way we consume TV but knowing this is the last season makes me want to enjoy it while it lasts.
I am doing a DS9 watch on the Dominion War and I have noticed that at the time of the original broadcast, the writers and producers give the audience a strong feeling of knowing what the stakes were at the end of an episode. Not everything is a reversal – changing the world they already knew. Writers took the dynamics of “the universe” seriously. And look— these stories mostly lasted.
I also intensely disliked Lost – every scene that I saw felt shallow, cool and incomplete.
I wish they would just release all the episodes at once. I wouldn’t mind waiting a few extra months for them to finish all the post processing.
Or, alternatively, a weekly release gives fans a chance to talk about it and have some fun doing that, while all being on the same schedule. I find that to be wonderful, and it’s something I took for granted before streaming.
if you let audiences binge a series then the discussions are all over the place and hedged with spoiler tags, the hype for the show is a shorter concentrated burst and the hard work all these artists put into it for months is just gobbled up like candy before the audience moves on to the next fix. No thanks.
You’re spot on, just out of curiosity is it the nostalgia that you’re enjoying?
I’m loving it! It is almost painful having to wait a week for the next episode. The episodes just fly by and I want more! I think they are doing a brilliant job setting up the mystery of Picard’s and Beverly’s son and why he is wanted by Vadik. And finally a great storyline for Raffi. I’m also glad to see Klingons and Ferengi looking like Klingons and Ferengi again… Discovery should take notes on how to properly honor what has come before…
I don’t like DSC either, and don’t love a lot of what they’ve done. But can’t we enjoy Picard without the backhanded sniping at other stuff? Really unnecessary, particularly as that series has a very healthy fanbase of viewers who DO like what they’ve done.
Wow. That was a harsh reply, and also “unnecessary”, for someone just sharing an opinion. For the record I am one of those people who do enjoy Discovery. I wish they better maintained consistency with what came before, which I think is an opinion shared by at least a few others. But I like all Trek, some better than others. Excuse me for daring to share an opinion. This type of response is why I rarely post on this site.
I maintain that we can praise one thing without backhandedly attacking another. If that’s harsh, i’m sorry and I don’t know what to tell you.
No joke there about the waiting. This is why for every other serialized show I watch, I wait until the entire season has aired before watching it all in a row. But PIC S3 has gotten the best of me, I’m back to the painful week-long waiting of years ago. It’s worth it, though, and lots of fun.
Here too. Only Trek do I catch when it comes out weekly but that is because it’s the only IP I’m that big a fan of to do it. All the others I wait till the end to watch episodes every day or two. But then, for those I’m also not reading internet stuff about them from fans and getting spoilers for, either.
The DSC Ferengi never brother me that much. There’s nearly a 1000 year gap to allow for interbreeding between species.
They could be a mix of a dozen species.
Or all ferengis don’t have to look alike. Different ethnicities and all that.
That’s why they shoot the Discovery so far into the Future. No Chains, no Lore to taken care of. All fresh new undiscovered Land. Also some new old hybrid races
Hell, Strange New Worlds needs to take notes on how to ACTUALLY honor what came before.
We need Emergency Counseling Hologram RIOS to help Raffi with that conversation. It would have been much better she had a real dialogue partner, one who could quickly move to probing into WHY she has decided to be responsible for the terrible things other people decide to do.
I refuse to accept that any competent crew wouldn’t have confiscated any electronic devices Jack Crusher had on his person before throwing him into the hoosegow. (At least Gary Seven’s All-Purpose Forcefield De-activator ™ was disguised to look like a pen, and he didn’t waste time or risk arousing the guard’s suspicion by taunting him before using it.) And what was the point of Crusher’s jailbreak anyhow? If he wanted to protect his mother by turning himself over to Vladic, that was Shaw’s plan at that point in any case.
If there were any Marvel franchise cliches regarding Crime Lords and Ubervillains that the writers of this thing didn’t employ in less than an hour, they managed to get by me somehow. At least in the first episode Show proved to be an interesting antagonist. This time out, he’s merely an incompetent one. And given his previous rightful dismissal of Picard’s authority (the man being retired), how does Jean-Luc manage to take control of the ship?
I understand that my attitude so far towards Picard Season 3 is an outlier, which at this point I’m frankly bemused by. I’ve read that it’s “cinematic,” and also a return to “real” Star Trek, stressing science and intelligent problem-solving. I keep wondering where that show is. It’s like witnessing a gory train wreck complete with mangled bodies, while everyone around you (including some whose opinions you respect) insists that it’s the greatest amusement park ride ever.
I agree. And while it was a thrill for me to see Picard take command of a starship again, finally, I don’t quite buy that he would do it just because Jack is his son. He would’ve done it well before that because… he’s Jean-Luc Picard. He’s the man who would gladly throw away everything, like standing up for the rights of Lal or Simon Tarsis, because it was the right thing to do.
Anyway, at least Patrick Stewart can still deliver. I’m liking his performance much more this season.
Yeah… He channeled younger Picard there for a little bit!
Your commentary is the true gift of this season!
Aww, you’re cute.
Definitely very sweaty. They are trying to setup Jack’s abilities, but in doing so, have to make everyone and everything look silly or stupid. The hour deadline really did setup a series of false choices. If Jack is a Federation citizen, then that alone should’ve been enough to compel Shaw to protect him, especially in the face of a sketchy bounty hunter. But they definitely had to pad it out to get us to the end reveal. It worked for me, if only because I’m judging this against all the Star Trek that’s come out since 2017.
Yeah. The jailbreak did seem like a time waster ultimately if his plan was to go to the Shrike to begin with. The only excuse I can think of is he was going to wait to see if there were other options and if he felt they were going to risk the ship for him he would take matters into his own hands and turn himself over. And I guess it’s possible the device he had was not readable as a tool? I know, I’m reaching here.
Regarding Shaw allowing Picard to take over.. Here is one view. Perhaps he realized that with Jack being Picard’s son it changed things for Picard and the Admiral now had extra motivation to just every bit of experience he had to get out of this. He obviously knew Picard’s experience. Figured that him being a robot now meant his mind was certainly not slowing down and Picard running things at this point was probably his best bet for getting everyone out of this without turning Jack over. Is this a stretch? Maybe. Just spitballing possibilities here.
I’m coming around on this season after these two episodes. Not sold on it yet, however. So I don’t blame you or anyone for still questioning this show. Given Secret Hideout’s history one has every right to even after these first two episodes.
Though fantasy as a genre in theory should be as rigorous and internally consistent as any other (i.e. make up whatever rules you want, but then you need to play by them), in truth I’m perfectly willing to ignore some considerable lapses in logic for the sake of a story that opens my eyes to new possibilities, or just offers up characters that I can care about. Harlan Ellison would often point out logical problems with books or movies he didn’t happen to like, which made me roll my eyes considering such issues with his own “Demon With a Glass Hand,” which features canyon-wide holes in its plot but is nevertheless one of the most impactful hours of science fiction ever aired on American television. Picard Season 3 can still win me over, in spite of how dumb the plotting has been thusfar, but we’re already 20% in, and I’m growing ever-less hopeful.
I do not entirely disagree with that. It’s a very reasonable take.
I agree with the objection, but in fairness, it’s far from the first time we’ve seen the crew suddenly grow incompetent when prisoner gets thrown in the brig. Remember the Klingon who hid a weapon in his *shoe* in “Heart of Glory”?
I do remember it, and that was a bad episode, too.
Yeah I definitely have to agree with the Crusher part not patting down the guy before throwing him in a brig. Maybe you could argue they didn’t see him as a threat, but it was clear the guy was pretty crafty when it came to escaping. That’s literally why he was even in the brig.
As far as your point that you’re an outlier, maybe here I guess, but I’m reading other places that are not feeling the season so much as well ATM. I’m personally loving it so far, but I thought this episode was on the weaker side compared to last weeks.
Just to be clear: the things I’m objecting to on this particular thread are in all honesty what could be classed as nitpicks, and as someone pointed out upstream, if you’re going to going to refuse to enjoy a show over every little plot element that doesn’t bear close inspection then you’re probably watching the wrong franchise. What actually bothers me more, at least so far, is the show’s *tone*. This season is being been billed as the appropriate sendoff the TNG characters never got, yet it feels nothing like TNG to me at all. Just one example: it’s defensible, I suppose, for Shaw to prioritize his crew over a wanted criminal when they’re outside of his jurisdiction and heavily outgunned. It’s also defensible for him to risk that crew on behalf of a Federation citizen, which is certainly what a TNG-era Picard would have insisted on doing, whatever the cost. What makes this a cynical show for a cynical time is Shaw’s willingness to do it only when it’s revealed that Jack Crusher happens to be the son of an Important Person. That’s totally un-Star Trek, and frankly, I think it sucks.
OK, fair enough!
I don’t have a big issue as you do, but yes I get your point. But I think for people who sees it from Shaw’s side is a guy who has been brought into the middle of a crisis that he already denied their request to go to and was even lied to about the nature of their request. And then only to get there to find out the person they are saving is a criminal wanted by other governments. So he’s now being asked to put his ship and crew in danger for people who committed illegal acts and two people who tricked and lied to him to be there. I would probably be a bit pissed too lol.
So I don’t look at it as ‘cynical’. Shaw made it very clear that he’s a by the book captain and from his POV, he’s now in the middle of a legal dispute by someone who admitted to breaking laws. Yes, he was doing it for a good cause but he still broke them while doing it. And he’s not exactly in a position to call in an arbitrator or anything.
The thing is knowing Picard as well as we do, at least the old Picard, I don’t know what he would do that differently in this situation. Sure I would have no doubt he would save the people from being hurt or killed. But once he found out he was holding a criminal that basically had charges by multiple governments, I’m not so sure he would just protect him at all costs either. Now I imagine he would contact Starfleet first and at least get their advice or direction first; which I’m surprised Shaw haven’t done himself at least, unless I’m missing something somewhere or they can’t for a particular reason.
I imagine if Starfleet gave him orders to protect Crusher at all costs, he would. But this is really a tricky situation and to me a very TNG type story and dilemma IMO. But I get how it’s being handled doesn’t feel TNG enough to you, but it’s only the second episode. We still have to see where all of it is going.
Yeah, I was wondering after the second episode how such an incompetent officer would be allowed to command a starship of any type. This is cartoonish levels of incompetency, just allowing mutiny and a retired admiral to take control of one’s command is the antithesis of the those previously given the “chair”.
“The Titan shuttle Picard stole was the Saavik, named after Saavik from Star Trek II, recently revealed to be the captain of the first USS Titan. Presumably, this means Saavik is dead by 2401.”
We don’t know Saavik’s age as of TOS movies, but assuming she was mid twenties as per the usual with her rank, she should be very much alive in 2401 unless something happened to her (Sarek for example lived to about 200. Spock was half human so his death at circa 150 something wouldn’t apply to the full Vulcan, or half Romulan half Vulcan, Saavik). Living people have had ships named after them in real life, the USS Jimmy Carter for example (the USS George HW Bush also launched while HW Bush was alive)
Yeah, I think it’s reasonable to think she’s alive and well, and perhaps retired. She could also have been killed, died of a disease, etc. Not everyone in Trek lives out their full life span after all.
It’s also possible the name was simply chosen in post production more recently, to commemorate Kirstie Alley who passed away last year.
I think captains get to name the shuttles. I remember Sisko naming a Runabout on DS9.
so, British accents ARE hereditary, Thought so.
Hey, remember how we had a whole movie about Jean-Luc brooding how he was the last Picard and there’ll never be another? Glad we can scrap that now
He probably watched a lot of British tv shows when he was a kid and picked up the accent.
The accent thing is one of my biggest pet-peeves about shows… and as much as we can headcanon the whole thing, our even try to accept a possible later explanation (did Beverly not raise him, or was he mostly around Brits growing up?), ALL it does is make me assume that the actor just isn’t good at giving his character an American accent. ☝️🤨
If you paid attention in the very opening scene of the first episode, Jack learned to speak from listening to Jean Luc’s logs. One was playing….
I believe that one was playing because Beverly was trying to find tactical clues about how to best hide inside a nebula in order to stay undetected; it pertained directly to their situation.
And I doubt that a child learning to talk, would pay more attention to recordings, rather than to their own mother, no? 🤨
Perhaps he’s channeling the mother of another Jack, Jr….
When Picard pats Shaw on the shoulder, I immediately felt that deeper bond that ties Starfleet captains. And Shaw lets out a beleaguered sigh, because he knows they’re all in this situation together- that is the meaning of Starfleet. It was such a subtle but meaningful exchange.
I do appreciate that we’re seeing Shaw as not just being Captain Dickbag and having depth, flexibility and nuance.
Shaw has been extremely well written and it’s easy to understand why he’d be a bit of a jerk when Picard & Riker show up. It’s his command and here come two guys with legendary reputations for playing fast and loose with the rules when it suits them. He senses they’re up to something. He doesn’t know what’s coming but knows they’re going to be a pain. The performance has been excellent and I suspect before it’s over, we’ll find ourselves impressed by Shaw….or they’ll kill him off to make Seven the Captain for a spin-off.
Been a huge TNG fan since i was 16 when it came on. LOVE these two episodes. A lot of the first two seasons did stink, but have made some great Trek. Remembrance is fantastic, the last Episode of season 1, then Q is one of my faves so that was fun in the study in S2. these two episodes are waaaay better than that. And if it is based on “Conspiracy’, then that is great. so you can watch that episode as the ‘prequel’ and this as a 10 hour movie. its fantastic. LOVE WORF and “I told you not to engage”. love that. Woot woot! Riker is still the man!
There’s several of these little moments in the first two episodes that I like. And a few moments prior to the shoulder pat, when Picard vocalizes who Jack is, Shaw immediately changes course to align with Picard, even though it is somewhat reluctant. We don’t know Shaw’s backstory, but family matters to him.
You know what, after some thought i wondering why this Statue in front of the Building was painted in Red, or was stored as “Red Lady” in the Databank’s?
Red = Blood? Onslaught?
I really curious if they explain it’s Color. Then it is obvious that the creator has something against her
She was carved out of a material that is naturally red.
Ah okay, thanks
I wish they’d cast the guy who plays Jack as Kirk in SNW. I could see it. The guy SNW got just ain’t it.
You’re right!
Speleers definitely has the intensity needed to portray Kirk, and I’m still not convinced he’s the right fit for this role.
And his look is just enough I could buy him as Kirk. Whereas the current SNW doesn’t look like Kirk, act like Kirk, feel like Kirk. If it don’t walk like a duck or quack like a duck it’s not a duck.
The Kirk casting was, for me anyway, the only miss in SNW. Everyone else was spot on. What compounds the problem is they really didn’t need to include Kirk in the series in the first place.
I like the new SNW kirk better than Shatner in TOS after just one episode, and he wasn’t even that great.
Speleers is killing it as Jack, but I can see how he might also make a good young Kirk, and a much better one than Shatner.
Another pretty good episode … well act, since it doesnt really tell its own story. Either way, I want to see more of this. However it still is annoying how the whol shows momentum grinds to a complete standstill once Raffi is on screen. It feels like they had to give one of the S1 and 2 Writers a storyline for contractual purposes since there are so many Kurtzmanisms in there. I hope this goes somewhere interesting soon …
But the other stuff is was pretty solidly done tense drama. I’d almost say get rid of all the memberberries and maybe to a USS Titan show without any easter eggs or legacy characters. But for gods sake, turn some lights on on set … those poor actors are all gonna need glasses working in this dim environment …
I agree! Every time the Rafi segment came on I just wanted to fall asleep, leave the room or anything but pay attention because I honestly don’t care about that story yet. I guess eventually the two plots will meet but I feel like far too much attention has been given to it. And I still think if it had been Rios I would be far more interested because he’s just a far mire intriguing character.
And yes.. For the love of God please turn up the lights!
Why do you guys hate women so much? Don’t answer that. I already know. 😒
I just wish they would turn on the lights.
Seriously, that is a Huge issue with me. Thanks for investing so much money in sets and costuming and production value and….but the audience just can’t see it. Beyond annoying.
They have been dimming the lights since the first tng movie. You should be use to it by now.
Yeah, either you get the Kelvin universe Enterprise with the super bright and lens flares and are blinded or you get this and can hardly see lol
Maybe this whole show takes place in the mirror universe. If they turned up the lights everyone would need eyedrops or sunglasses.
This is my biggest complaint. I see no reason not to lighten things up. At first, I was hoping the dark lighting was their “reserve power mode” or something, but yeesh. I don’t get it.
Wish I could watch it. Pararmount+ not working for me.
Loved it. The look with Beverly and Jean-Luc… wow. Just, wow. So much in that. So happy to be 49 and still have my “space friends” I had when I was 13. It’s a joy and significant to have these characters back in my life and imagination again.
I’m 37, grew up with TNG, first Trek movie I saw in theaters was TUC, etc. I feel the same way, it’s refreshing, and the fact that the cast is close IRL also just adds another layer to the cake.
Yes that look. Unfortunately I felt they were going for a look, but it was so overdone that it felt fake. And when Picard closed his eyes… I mean I understand the emotion there, they hadn’t seen each other for decades, Jack is his son… but I feel that Picard would have remained stoic. He has become overly emotional in his later years. Saying all this I do realize that probably 95% of the viewers will feel the same as you, and I’m probably misreading this…
My reaction was closer to yours Silvereyes.
Patrick Stewart has done some marvellous face acting in these two episodes, but those closed eyes felt contrived, as did a similar look of acknowledgement to Riker in episode one about his missing the Hellbird because he was Locutus.
This is a good sign. The first time I can recall where a Secret Hideout show that wasn’t called Prodigy had two decent episodes in a row. This is indeed promising. It wasn’t without its flaws. Every time the Rafi story appeared the episode slowed to a crawl. And the long lost son trope is pretty tiresome as is the bigger badder a million times more powerful ship. Apart from that the show is progressing decently to the surprise of a great great many I should think.
The odds that this season may end up being above mediocre are increasing. But even if that becomes so no one should make the mistake of concluding that Secret Hideout has finally discovered how to make a decent TV series. I’m still of the opinion that if this ends up being good it’s more likely a mistake than intentional.
oh yeah god forbid if it’s good it HAS to be a mistake.
thank god most people don’t take other people’s opinions seriously.
There’s cynicism and then there’s fatalism. Would hate to have to spend 20 minutes in line at the airport with some of these people.
Well… If someone for years has constantly churned out nothing but crap product then suddenly a fair product comes out… Logic suggets based on history that the decent product was a mistake. Is that the ONLY possibility? No. But it’s the most likely one.
This season is several levels better than the first two, though it does seem to be drawn out a bit. Also, I truly wish they’d kept a different Picard character and not kept Rafi, whose over-angry over-acting gets in the way of every scene she’s in. She is my least favorite character from CBS All-Access era other than Gray, and she brings nothing to this show. Keeping her on Picard was a big misstep with me.
I like what they are doing with Raffi. Her character may be salvaged yet.
The writers have taken the bible, and her key character points laid out in season one, owned them and are now moving forward.
Yeah I am liking it too but I agree her scenes felt too drawn out. But I think now that Worf is with her, things are going to be more interesting.
I give it a 7/10 and I can agree with most of what I read in the review. The best moments were the introduction of Worf and the eyes locking of Crusher and Picard at the end. That last part was also beautifully scored. Besides that not a lot gave me feelings to be honest. I even got a tad bored three quarters in because not a lot was actually happening. And the few reveals were either already predicted or already spoiled in the trailer.
But where I really (REALLY) struggle is the fact that visually the episode was nearly unwatchable. I mean, was there even discussion between departments like the dp and the costume designers. A lot of times I couldn’t even tell the Starfleet department colors. It looked like everybody was wearing blacks. And the planet wasn’t any better.
Final nitpick: in my head canon Ferengi are bald… like everywhere. The fact Sneed seemed to have a five o’clock shadow bugged me. But that’s probably me.
All in all a 7 is an okay score I think, but the actors deserve better for their performanced. If only it looked better.
OK, well, I expected to be the only one bothered by Sneed’s five o’clock shadow but I’m glad I’m not alone!
The stubble bugged me too
Really solid episode, although I did feel like we were back to the S1/S2 tone of awkward exposition and over-the-top performances in a barely recognizably seedy and contemporary Star Trek world.
Pros:
Amanda Plummer is SO good! She is such a compelling villain, born to play this roll!
Sneed…I sat there slack-jawed at how incredible it was to see a REAL Ferengi again, and they made it work! The thing about the Ferengi is that they were mostly played like sitcom characters that worked in the heightened theatrical style of old Star Trek, but it was hard to see how they would ever work again in modern Trek. And they nailed it here, loved it!
Patrick Stewart absolutely nailed his performance in this episode, I recognized Picard again.
Jack Crusher: The reveal actually worked pretty good, and you can see why they wanted to put Beverly into stasis so Picard would have to come to terms with reality and learn the truth at a heightened moment.
Cons:
Raffi figuring out the conspiracy with a big exposition dump really didn’t work for me, I don’t understand why she was asking for information when she seem to have already figured out the details on the spot. The attitude of the computer voice was also cringey.
Worf’s face reveal could have been handled better cinematically, it spoiled the moment for me, but I enjoyed the lead-up even if I saw it coming a mile away.
After a fantastic debut, they made Shaw un-sympathetic in this episode. He become irrational and angry and turned him into an opportunity for Picard and Riker to save the day. There is still plenty of rationalization in there, but it didn’t balance out his callousness.
This episode kept interrupting itself every time it was about to reveal something, that was annoying because it just made the episode messier and more confusing.
Overall if I wasn’t told that this season is going to be really good, I would be a little concerned after this episode, but there are so many great scenes in it regardless.
Regarding the Ferengi being comedic… To be fair that is mostly how DS9 handled them. So a lot of us have gotten a bit used to that.
Agreed. TNG really botched the launch of the Ferengi and it didn’t help that the pre-show press compared them to the Klingons in TOS. Quark initially was a lot rougher around the edges but thanks to great writing, and the excellent performance of Shimmerman, we finally got Ferengi worthy of screen time and stories. Nog, Rom, Quark, Zek, Brunt, and Moogie were all pretty well fleshed out. Heck, Nog joined Starfleet but his skills in Ferengi trade and commerce came in handy in acquiring parts, While DS9 gave us Ferengi with integrity, they weren’t representative of the whole race just those who were exposed to Hew-Mans & root beer.
…a barely recognizably seedy and contemporary Star Trek world.
Yes. Yes, I enjoy this description. I guess the justification may be they feel they have to make it ‘gritty’ now, to compete with current programming. And ‘dark,’ and in certainly more ways than one.
I don’t understand why they didn’t simply revisit Freecloud, and instead created a new planet, M’Talas, that looks like Freecloud, walks like Freecloud, and quacks like Freecloud. Was Matalas really that intent on naming a planet after himself?
They did not create a new planet. “Matalas” was created for an episode of Enterprise, when Terry was an assistant to Brannon Braga.
It’s spelled differently, but according to Terry, it’s meant to be the same world, and was suggested for reuse by someone else.
I think that Picard just assumed that Jack was his kid tbh but we’ll just have to see.
Beverly basically told him that Jack was his kid non-verbally.
I thought Sneed’s bottled beverage was a Sluggo Cola!
I think the cooler said Sluggo
Yes it wasn’t a “classic soda pop” from a Earth but the Ferengi delicacy Slug-O-Cola… with 44% live algae!! :)
Very entertaining fan service.
Am I the only one picking up the Wrath of Khan vibe here?
No. It’s quite apparent
“A successful Starfleet Admiral gets a distress call from an old flame, a Doctor no less, who is being threatened by things unknown. When he comes to her aid, he first meets her adult son who instantly gets into a fistfight with the good guys before they realize who he is and what he represents. All the while, our heroes are being menaced by a much more powerful vessel which is looming long in the background.”
What part reminded you of Wrath of Khan?
not sure about picking up – perhaps you mean struck over the head with a large stick labeled “Khaaaan”?
As much as I had nothing nice to say about Ep1, I generally liked this episode a lot. Especially Sneed. That said, the trope of the villain knowing everything about the heroes a la Khan and Kruge was the exact kind of undisciplined fan-service that makes me lose patience with Matalas.
Any good villain in fiction does research on their enemy. This trope is not unique to Trek — think James Bond, Superman, et al — and is certainly not what i’d call fan service by any stretch of the imagination.
I’ll swallow the impulse to say that if “doing research” on classified information was that easy for Vadic, she must have been working in the Trump or Biden administrations.
But you didn’t! Let’s get political, hot button!
As for her ability to get classified intel, it’s already said that Starfleet can’t be trusted so it’s fair to assume he has high level connections. Just wait to see how it unfolds…
Oops
Did Kruge know anything about Kirk, other than the fact that he was the guy who made the recording about Genesis?
Indeed Kruge had it totally wrong, thinking Kirk was personally leading the Genesis project (“so, the Genesis Commander himself”).
I always liked that in ST3 how the Klingon’s had their own propaganda/beliefs. Not a totally unfair assumption either given they would know little of the Kahn incident / why is a Starfleet Admiral giving a briefing on Genesis if not personally involved.
They also called the Enterprise a “Federation Battlecrusier”. Just because we call it a heavy crusier or exploration crusier doens’t keep the Romulans or Klingons from believing it to be a battlecrusier, just as the Feds called the D-7 a battlecrusier (and may a Connie take on a D-7 on screen in a fair fight one day in SNW!).
At what point did Section 31 stop being the Federation’s most closely guarded secret?
Certain people have always known that it exists. If the Ferengi has had dealings with S31 before, he may know that they exist. That still doesn’t explain why Boimler knows about them though.
I think at this point, the secret is just out about Section 31. It’s been over 20 years since they first showed up on DS9 and I imagine a lot of secrets came out about them after the Dominion war ended and Sloan was killed.
That’s more believable than them being a secret in the 22nd century, completely out in the open with combadges in the 23rd century and back to being a secret in the 24th century.
Section 31 went underground after the Control incident.
Section 31 was just a bad idea to begin with. I loved DS9 but there were things they did that weren’t great. Section 31 was one of them. It easily could have been some arm of Federation Intelligence that was uber secret. Then what they did could still work. There is just something that strikes me as wrong about an agency like Section 31 in the UFP. But quite frankly it was the Secret Hideout treatment of Section 31 that really made it drop from merely a bad idea to pure foolishness.
The writers love S31 for a good reason. The Drama. Starfleet Boy Scouts can get real boring pretty fast.
They are no more secretive than the (sorry for the spelling) Tal Shiar or the Ipsidium Order! After DS9, the cat was out of the bag!
That’s definitely one way they could play it: they used to be a big deal, went underground, but are back out in the open. But I think it’s just as possible they could retcon it so that it’s an intelligence arm that isn’t unknown, just not often talked about.
Yeah, I think that’s the direction they are going with. LDS has already made this evident since they been named dropped there several times now as far back as its second episode in season one. I guess because it’s a comedy, people overlook it but it’s obvious S31 has become pretty known according to that show and that takes place 15 years before Picard does.
After Julian Bashir exposed them again.
Julian exposed s31on TikTok, but after a week everyone forgot about it.
How many people here knows the inner workings of the NSA? The name Section 31 was never a secret.
I think they’re retconning that it was never a secret. But go back and watch Inquisition, it’s clear that nobody has heard the name Section 31 before.
That said, it’s not a hard retcon. It might not be the kind of thing everyone has heard of (for example, have you heard of the NCS? or DCS? Two clandestine intelligence agencies that operate out of the US? They are not unknown, but not popularly recognized).
I’m sure many will flip out over this retcon, but bigger things have been retconned before. Retcons are a part of any franchise, and i’d argue Trek practically invented the concept!
Sad that its Picard’s kid ,Iwas expecting a better reveal . Crusher your hid a man’s kid from him and never told him ,you re a cu-t!
…I think it’s going to turn out being a little deeper than that. At least I hope so.
I’m still not convinced Jack is Picard’s son….I reckon there is a twist coming on that front.
Completely went into geek mode when Worf appeared and it was fantastic to FINALLY see a Ferengi that was truely sadistic and menacing rather than being mainly comedic and mild enemy (even when they were trying to be really sinister!)
This is going to sound extremely nitpicky, but I couldn’t stand the Ferengi…
Amazing acting, well scripted, nice prosthetics.
But stubble? For some reason the facial hair took me out of the scene
No review of the plot elements should gloss over the fact that today’s streaming version of the episode was visually poor. The darks were far too shadowy and the highlights were washed out. This is not a critique of the filming style, because last week’s episode was fine. But the presentation this week was almost unwatchable. All of the scenes on the Titan’s bridge were almost all black; the secondary characters appeared as nothing more than silhouettes against their consoles, and the command officers were all dressed in black. Nearly all of the nuance in Sneed’s den was completely lost, including Worf’s dramatic entrance. I assume this is all a simple setting that a technician at Paramount+ could fix in a second. Not all of us schmucks get to watch the 6 preview episodes released to the press…
I was reading on twitter that some streams had problems with the colors, particularly internationally. Some commented that it was over-saturated, which may be what you’re referring to, idk. Personally, I did not have that issue.
I just checked. The version that came online on Prime today was better. Still the extremely dark style they chose for the bridge and other interiors, but the problems were no longer present. It looked like last week’s episode again.
Thanks, I thought something was wrong with my TV. It’s just Paramount. Figures.
It looked HORRENDOUS.
Completely ruined the episode for me. The extremes in brightens and contrast and saturation made the space scenes really hard to make out and any light that appeared, including the LCARS graphics were completely blown out in the darker lit scenes on the bride etc.
The reveal and emotions of some scenes rested on facial expressions, like when Bev and Picard looked at each other at the end but I honestly could not see what kind of face Beverly was making so it was lost on me. I “knew” what was happening, what the interaction meant, but I couldn’t see it.
FRUSTRATING.
Might want to check your screen settings, I didn’t have any issues on my tv
No one mentions the quality of device they’re watching on. Even those watching on flat screens are having widely ranging experiences.
Maybe it’s your tv. My tv switches to HDR mode and it looked perfect.
It was extremely over-saturated and the contrast was extreme too. There were no blacks (only dark greys) last week, this time EVERYTHING looked black. You couldn’t make out department colors on the uniforms at times. I too found it unwatchable because of that.
I’ve seen pictures from Dave Blass on Twitter of the Rafi planet stuff. That looked gorgeous! But non of it translated to the screen like that. So I believe it IS the filming and color grading style.
It is NOT your TV. Matalas said there was something wrong with some streams, and they are addressing it. Most people (like me) had no issues, but some did, apparently.
It was so dark and murky in there that I honestly couldn’t really tell what the heck was going on for a bit. I wonder if it was just to hide the gore?
But the darkness remains a constant irritant.
I’m very torn on this episode. Overall I definitely liked it, but I had problems with it too. To get the biggest issue out of the way, like many, I never liked the idea of Jack Crusher being Picard’s son. I assumed that would be the reveal as that was really the ONLY big leak out of the season so far and it never went away. So I was prepared for it, but I still didn’t like it. Although I loved how well McFadden and Stewart played the moment in the reveal, that was great.
Also the Raffi B-plot is OK, but kind of slowing down the plot. Again, I was prepared for this because RMB said months ago Raffi plot is the slower part of the early episodes but it gets much better for both the character and the story line. I really loved how it ended it though but yes I think the issue is we don’t know how the two stories connect yet so feels a little disjointed, but I know we’re getting there.
All the scenes on the Titan were fine, but it did just feel like stalling for time….which the episode was literally about. But I’m loving Shaw. I know people are divided on him, mostly because how he is not a huge fanboy of Picard and Riker. But you can’t really blame the guy lol. But I didn’t buy he would just let Picard and Riker be killed. It is a tricky situation, he’s not wrong, they put themselves in that danger and did so by defying his orders in the first place. But I still don’t believe he would just let them die either. I did like the dilemma of the situation but you can already see him softening a bit as it goes.
Now all the stuff I loved, the biggest, WORF YES WORF!!!!!!!!!! We all saw it coming light years away but him slicing up everyone and the Klingon music blaring was the perfect entrance. It was almost as cool as his entrance on the Defiant in First Contact. Now I’m super excited for next week.
Loved Riker and Seven as well. Every time they are on screen, I just smile.I am also liking Jack Crusher too and he’s going to be a more interesting and complicated character in more ways than I thought. Which goes to the next point.
I think I’m going to love Captain Vadic. It’s so funny, the trailers pushed so hard she was going to be this big villain out to get Picard for some reason and none of that is even remotely true. Again, RMB and others was saying it for months now that wasn’t the character and it was a misdirect but boy was it. I’m very happy of course and I’m digging the bounty hunter vibe she has. I know there is a lot more to her than just wanting Crusher so now I’m excited to see where it goes.
Overall the episode was intriguing with some great moments, but not a lot happened either. I’ll see where the son plot goes but I really really wish they didn’t go there. I think this episode was weaker than last weeks by far but still liked it.
Now that the first two have aired, I can say that when I first watched them, I too was a little offput by Jack’s reveal as Picard’s son in this episode, and that it’s him who Vadic is after. Mostly because it felt too much like a rehash of “Firstborn.”
But then I was reading a discussion among fans about Picard’s character arc during TNG. They pointed out that one of his biggest shifts across 7 seasons was his relationship with children: in one of his earliest scenes, he voices his open dislike of kids, but as the series progresses, he slowly becomes more comfortable. First with Wesley, then becoming a reluctant surrogate father in “Suddenly Human,” later when he’s forced to spend time along with children in “Disaster.”
It all leads up to “Firstborn,” where he seems to warm to the idea that he has a son, and eventually seems to wish he was a father. So what better way to wrap up Picard’s character than to actually have him being a father?
Unfortunately, because of how things shook out, it had to be a secret son he never knew, if it was ever going to be someone he could actually interact with (as opposed to say, having a child with Laris).
Ultimately this is Star Trek, a show often built around such contrivances, coincidences, and tropes, all for the sake of brevity and character drama, so it’s not hard for me to overlook.
Obviously I hope you’re right. And I do like Picard’s arc of how he didn’t like children at the beginning to liking the idea of being a father. And yes, that was a theme throughout TNG, the biggest example you missed being The Inner Light. Picard literally raised kids in that episode until they became adults. And then of course we saw him in Generations with him in the Nexus having a large family and by then, it was something he now outwardly wanted. So yeah I can definitely buy Picard would embrace having a son by this point. It’s been a theme that popped up for years.
It’s really just the soap operaish way that’s really the issue in this case. And it brings up SO many questions, but I know that’s the point as well. So I’m not going to judge it just yet and I still may like it overall. But I can’t blame how people are reacting to it so far either. Hopefully we’ll all be won over.
I think the loss of his nephew as well as his brother and sister-in-law had a profound impact on the character of Picard. It changed him in a major way from that Captain we met in S1. It is not a surprise that he was a changed man from the time he got that fateful message on the holographic sailing ship!
Yes, also a great point. We knew how much it bothered him he would have no one else to carry on the Picard name once his nephew died as well.
Haha I really have to agree with you on the entrance of Worf, slicing and dicing his way back to the small screen. Yes it might have been expected, but it was so well done!
And now you know why I laughed before the season started when everyone was upset by the “i’m a pacifist” line. Fans really thought he wouldn’t be a warrior anymore.
Yeah that was fun! Worf is still very much Worf thankfully.
I’m surely missing something obvious here, but who is “RMB”?
Nobody worth ever listening to or invoking. A guy who was part of that Axanar scam, who once produced some behind-the-scenes Trek featuretes for Paramount.
Without seeking to open an off-topic can of worms, I’ll say that the “Axanar scam” was loads more compelling than DISCO season one (indeed, than DISCO season anything).
At any rate, thank you to TIger2 for actually answering my question.
Robert Meyer Burnett. He wrote/directed a movie in the 90s called Free Enterprise about filmmakers who idolize Star Trek and William Shatner (who also appears as himself).
Oh sorry, yes others said it already, Robert Meyer Burnett who M113 explained. I used to always say his full name but since I noticed others started to used his initials I started to get lazy and do the same thing. I only brought him up because he had seen the entire season as far back as August and I became obsessed with his videos since and kind of knew in advance of what was coming without any major spoilers obviously. One of the biggest was he kept telling people Vadic wasn’t what the trailers were suggesting and I’m happy that turned out to be the case at least.
Well, so far she’s turned out to be exactly what the trailers suggested: yet another mustache-twirler (OK, a chain-smoking mustache-twirler) with a Menacing Ship who’s Out for Revenge against our heroes. The best that can be said is that Plummer chews the scenery better than most of them.
I hope this description changes in subsequent episodes.
I’m sorry, but I don’t remotely see that at all. How is she a villain if it’s simply her job to capture wanted criminals?? That’s what bounty hunters do. Yes her methods are extreme lol but she isn’t trying to even hurt or kill anyone, she asked them to hand the guy over and would leave them alone once they did. And how does any of it equal revenge? Crusher didn’t do anything to her personally, nor is that’s why she is after him. Again, she’s just doing her job.So I don’t follow this argument at all?
Now sure, there could be other motives and she could even be lying over who she say she is, but she’s not trying to kill people over it. At least not yet.
And the trailers made it seem like she was basically the entire catalyst for the story, like most of the uber-villains in the movies, ie, everything happening is because of her who wants to take down Picard and the Federation and that’s obviously not the case. Even if she turns out to be bad, she’s just a side character to something much bigger. She could even be just a pawn being used by other people and not even know it.
But I’m not suggesting she can’t ultimately be someone evil or has her own agenda, but for now, she hasn’t done anything other than trying to collect her bounty.
That’s…quite the gloss. Flinging an entire medical starship, perhaps half a kilometer long, at second starship could very easily have killed someone (indeed, we don’t know that it *didn’t*).
Destroying the shuttle clearly would have resulted in Beverly’s death had Hansen not persuaded Shaw to intervene with the Titan. She was also clearly willing to send her own crew to their deaths to apprehend Jack Crusher.
On the revenge point, yes, I’m partly going by the trailers, in which she hissed lines about “the ashes of the Federation.”
She wasn’t trying to kill them because Picard literally said she wants Crusher alive. She was demonstrating how powerful her ship was. She literally said that. She obviously knew Titan has shields, that’s why she did it. It’s still weird they weren’t just up knowing she came there to fight and had such a powerful ship.
“Destroying the shuttle clearly would have resulted in Beverly’s death had Hansen not persuaded Shaw to intervene with the Titan. She was also clearly willing to send her own crew to their deaths to apprehend Jack Crusher.”
She had no idea to Beverly’s condition lol. How would she?? Did anyone tell her? And how is sending people to apprehend the guy she came to get proves she’s evil? She tried to beam him off the ship first but they had inhibitors, so plan B was to go and get him directly. Isn’t that how it always done, evil or not?
And If she was a villain, why would Shaw even want to hand Crusher over to her? Because in his eyes, she’s simply doing her job and has every reason to detain him. Of course it’s odd no one ever asked her to see any prof she was hired by any governments to apprehend him but that’s a different subject.
And the ‘ashes of the Federation’ line is literally my point. A lot of us was thinking it was a revenge story because of this line obviously but RMB said when the trailer first revealed her that it was a misdirect and out of context. Now I see exactly what he meant; it’s the reason I brought it up. Of course he couldn’t say anything more without spoiling it.
But yes in the trailers it looked like she showed up to blast Picard out of the stars because he did something to her that no one understood similar to Nero, Khan 2.0 and Krall were blowing things and people up in the Kelvin movies. We didn’t find out why they were doing any of it until waaaay later in the story. That’s what I thought was going to happen here, someone angry and felt slighted over something just to find she’s just a bounty hunter and came for Crusher. If they handed him over, she would’ve just left and no one hurt right? That’s not really being a villain IMO.
i hope Amanda Plummer is going to ham it down a few notches in future episodes. Vadic is more grating than menacing at this point.
She need to ham it up more. She’s a delight to watch.
Completely agreed. She makes Michelle Yeoh’s hissing seem positively subtle.
I disagree some. It feels more menacing.. Or “bad guy-ish” coming from her. It just never worked with Yeoh. It’s a characteristic that seems to be beyond her skills. When she does it it just comes of as clownish. Like she is someone to not take seriously. This Vedic chick… Yeah her comments carry a little weight.
Although she is commanding a GIANT ship that is overloaded with immense weapons. One wonders what she needs this kid for so very badly. She seems to already have oodles of power, money and loyalty at her disposal. What the hell else does she need?
I agree that it didn’t suit Michelle Yeoh. A fan brought up the parallel between Jason Vigo and Jack on Twitter. Made me think it would be funny if Vadic somehow turned out to be Daimon Bok in disguise (like a hologram) lol.
Much of the best Star Trek omits anyone acting in a “bad guy-ish” way.
filming models > CGI
You’re talking about the Titan aren’t you? That CG model indeed doesn’t really hold up unless it’s really darkly lit or if they put a ton of fog over it.
But all CG models done by ILM in the past, and certain other companies (NOT that horrible model of the E in insurrection!!!) are actually really really good.
It’s only with the new shows they seem to have cut corners when it comes to the CG budget of their hero shipsl Remember that horrible lighting of the Discovery during season 1? They were desperately trying to hide the low res model imperfections then too.
Yeah, that model does not look good. None of the CGI on this show is that great, but there is a lot of it, along with a large cast and a lead actor who made a reported $750K per episode so they’re gonna have to cut corners somewhere. Rendering time is outrageously expensive.
I’m also not seeing the problems with the CGI most people are. Maybe I just don’t care that much. Still looks better than most of TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT.
I don’t think it approaches the level of detail of physical models, but the scope of what they can do and the quality is absolutely better than what was at the time very good cgi on DS9-ENT, now decades old. And it’s better than most of the cgi in Generations-Nemesis too.
And frankly, none of it bothers me. While FX are important in sci-fi storytelling, Star Trek was never about the FX. That was Star Wars.
After all, the FX on TOS and TNG/DS9/VOY in particular — while decent for their eras — certainly weren’t anywhere close to cutting edge or of the highest quality. Nothing that would ever touch a cinematic release. In some ways they were downright low budget.
Also worth noting: the VFX in this season far outstrip anything you see on network TV (as it should). Is it the best in the industry? Maybe not. But it holds up quite well against streaming competition like The Expanse, at least in my eyes. But then again, i’m not someone who scrutinizes or cares, really.
(I also learned recently that the visual designer on The Expanse also worked on SNW and DSC — though he’s only credited on IMDb for DSC, he talked about helping to redesign the Enterprise in an interview)
I agree. I think there have been plenty of times when the VFX of the shows and movies were stellar, but it’s only TMP and the JJ films that had huge budgets to work with. I was chuffed just to see ILM working its magic on the films and usually impressing within the smaller scale that could be afforded them. And then on TV we were always aware it wasn’t Star Wars, but Image G and Foundation, Digital Muse and EdenFX were doing some lovely Emmy-winning work with decent for the time TV budgets. It was all fun and looked unique, and that carries over now. We get some lovely sweeping shots in Picard with pretty good CGI that’s obviously not cheap, and I’m having fun watching it.
Hurray getting TOS motion picture / TWOK TV show that should have always been the next gen. Just wish it was Saavik and David Marcus with the TMP Fédération but I’ll take what I can get and always did like the actors/actresses.
The ENT-A should have been Shangri-La class!
Wish they could have incorporated the Borg / AI Picard themes. Maybe Picard’s son could be explained by Beverly attempted to reprogram the Picard Borg connection or something. And still think it would have been fun having the TNG crew try to save Picard from the Borg, but this is pretty good too (which is saying a lot as I am no TNG fan).
This is really astoundingly head and shoulders above the first two seasons, its like getting another TNG movie. RMB was right i’m sorry i doubted him.
I like both seasons. Why do we need to rate everything? It’s pointless.
Yeah this has been my point for a while. We can praise it without bashing everything else, which disrespects the fans here who enjoy those other things.
That said, at least this is in reference to Picard, the show we’re watching. It’s not like he dragged in another show that isn’t even being discussed here. People are just so eager to trash stuff, they’ll do it any chance they get.
I’ve literally seen people trash S2 of Picard on articles about Marvel movies. Just because, hey they mentioned Patrick Stewart, time to throw some mud at the thing I don’t like!
To be clear: voicing your opinion of a thing is fine, when it’s at the appropriate place and time. Want to give Picard S3 a bad review in this comment section? This is the place to do it!
But giving a bad review to Discovery while the topic is Picard is going to do little but make you look like a troll who just wants to complain all the time. So don’t whine when people call you out for it (not specifically talking to you, A34)
As said, in this case it’s fine because it’s at least related: comparing this to the first two seasons — briefly and succinctly — is understandable and even warranted.
I’m still not ready to say he was right. Two decent episodes back to back is amazingly rare from Secret Hideout but to be fair they did it. But I will reserve judgment until the final moment of the final episode. This show could still very easily fall over a cliff even with this promising start.
Fair enough. Maybe i’ve been taken in by nostalgia, but in the dinner scene Picard sounded like Picard, not Jake Picard. Not Kurtzman Picard, he sounded like original verse version.
I didn’t see Picard until he grew a pair and took over command of the Titan in this episode, myself. At that point much of the Picard we knew made an appearance.
I am loving Vadic! What do we think her backstory is? Mirror Universe? Augment? Conspiracy symbiote? Iconian?
It’s nice to see Worf again, but seeing him for 30 whole seconds was not enough to make me like this episode.
The sets are WAY too dark, the plot has been hackneyed so far, and if I want to watch TWOK, I’ll go watch TWOK; I don’t need a remake of it.
I hope that they’re all lying about Jack’s being Picard’s son, and there will be some sort of twist ahead.
Personally, I prefer the TOS and TNG episodes to the movies, and while many fans seem to worship TWOK, I much prefer “The Devil in the Dark,” “Journey to Babel,” “The Measure of a Man,” and “Darmok.”
I guess maybe I’ll go re-watch “Children of the Comet,” if I want some new Star Trek that feels like Trek to me.
They already did an homage to TWOK: it was called “Nemesis” (or “STID,” if you prefer)!
Ha! So another one is really NOT necessary. :-)
if those were an homage, I’d hate to see what outright disrespect and ignorance would look like….
Am I the only one that thought for a brief moment that it was Elnor coming to save Raffi? Worf’s entrance was very similar to when Elnor came to Picard’s aid in the season 1 ep “Absolute Candor.” Now, don’t get me wrong, I was super excited when I realized it was Worf, but at the same time I was kinda hoping that Matalas pulled a fast one on us and Elnor was actually going to be in season 3.
Yes, I thought “Elnor!” for a second before I realized that it was Worf. I like Worf better, so I was glad to see him, but the Picard character that’s been a one-man army with a sword before now was Elnor.
I liked Worf’s entrance, but yes, I wish Elnor were returning, and the scenes were so similar that I wonder if a first draft of the script featured Elnor.
Worf WITH Elnor. That might have deminished Worf’s entrance, but he could be his ward.
I wish! I’d hoped we’d get to see Worf and Elnor playing off each other when the announcement that the TNG cast was coming back landed, and the news that most of the S2 cast had been dropped was disappointing news.
I’m loving this season. What a fantastic ride so far.
I am confused. What is Picard’s command authority? He can’t command the Titan to the nebula in Ep 1 (Shaw pointedly amends his Admiral title as “retired”). Yet he can belay Shaw’s order to unlock the transporters, thereby throwing the whole ship into danger, by simply shouting “Admiral’s orders!” and everyone follows it?
That was confusing.
Who’s going to disobey an Admiral?
Ironically, Picard, for one. He and the rest of the bridge crew sure disobeyed Admiral Pressman in the end.
I get what you’re saying but in my head the first time he was asking. The second time he was pulling rank.
I actually didn’t get the sense Shaw went along with Picard because he was an admiral, but because of the fact that Crusher was his son. A bit of Shaw’s humanity poked through, as well as — perhaps — regulation, considering this was no ordinary civilian anymore, this was the son of a Starfleet officer.
I think it’s enough to say that the crew WANTED to obey him, it’s clear throughout the first two episodes that the rest of the crew revere him. Thus, it would have been up to Shaw to belay the order, just as it was in the previous instance.
My thought would be that Shaw thinks Picard is compromised. I mean the guy was a Borg, then communicated with the Borg in FC, was obsessed with AI and then becomes a robo-Picard (and acts like it is no big deal).
But then on hearing Picard has a son, Shaw realizes that robo-Picard isn’t the Borg (or isn’t compromised at the moment), that he is acting human and thus can be trusted in the situation.
Possibly.
It’s an unexplained inconsistency, but I can roll with that.
It’s a serialized story, so this may make sense later.