I think the worst episode of the series so far was the one where they were all in some kind of “Game of Thrones” environment (“The Elysian Kingdom”) or whatever that was. (I have never seen “Game of Thrones.”)

I know the general feeling of the Trek shows is of a paramilitary organization whose members spout stylized dialogue and act with the utmost level of professionalism, but that is not always the case.

Trip, Scotty and McCoy speak their mind quite freely. Dax is often casually chummy with her crewmates. Riker vacillates between stolid and familiar all the time. Heck, even O’Brien of all people got fresh with Sisko in “Babel.”

I know it’s pervasive in SNW and Lower Decks, but the casual dialogue and less professional attitudes don’t bother me quite as much as they do others. I think it’s because sometimes 90s Trek was a little too stuff for its own good and characters had a way of talking which didn’t always ring true, even if they did smartly veer away from 20th century idioms most of the time.

As for Spock needing to learn things… it’s a little bit of a stretch forcing his learning curve need to be so steep from now until he serves with Kirk and is so much more in control and domineering, but I’m not opposed to it if it gives us good material.

If the story is compelling I’ll forgive a lot. I don’t really think this episode hit the mark but I like what it was trying to do.

Spock is, of course, the franchise player in TOS, but in this show, he and Ortegas are peers.

 …dislike how unprofessional she is, how critical she is of Spock.

Doesn’t bother me a bit. Remember, Spock and Ortegas are the same rank (lieutenant). When I was the equivalent rank in the USAF (captain), we gave threw shade on each other all the time. No big deal.

“Also Ortegas is so patronising of Spock, ‘I don’t blame Spock, he still has a lot to learn’ is very insulting.”

While I don’t agree with all your points, I really really hated this line too. Like, excuse me? HE has a lot to learn? I got her point he can be more ‘human’ but you’re on a ship to learn about new life and civilizations, maybe learn to understand him a little more too.

I hate what they are doing to Spock

In fact this show is ruining Spock, thankfully I can separate this show from TOS. Spock should be commanding respect. He should be the barometer on observing humans, not to have the humans show him how to be the man he is. It was bad enough hearing how Burnham shaped Spock, like Spock can’t do anything without the help of others.

Also Ortegas is so patronising of Spock, ‘I don’t blame Spock, he still has a lot to learn’ is very insulting. Spock smiled in The Cage because the character had not been fleshed out, not an excuse to basically turn the most logical man as well as the most intelligent person into a bit of a simpleton. As someone commented it’s like Data starting of like B4.

Yes do a rougher less defined Spock but don’t disrespect him. Spock was a hero to me growing up and it’s hard to see what the Kurtzman era is doing to Spock

A shame as SNW has so much potentia

No hair on Pike’s coif was ever out of place in this episode, despite snow, fights, manual labor. His hairdo is the real star of this series…

I didn’t mention TOS nor compared it to SNW. Nothing you said had anything to do with the post you responded to. So, what are even talking about??

Trekmovie, can we please get an ignore feature? Seriously. See above.

“Says the basement dweller that never has anything positive to say about any of the series that have been created. Week after week are you this bitch about how bad everything is.”

You clearly have me confused with someone else since I like and have praised most of the shows on now including this show. And I don’t have a basement but would love to have one.

But it just proves no matter how many posts you make or try to be as balanced as possible when discussing a topic you will still get posts like this.

John Harriman probably happened by the planet on a Tuesday and well, y’know …

(full disclosure – I have long been fascinated by Harriman and have speculated about his post-GEN career since that film’s opening night. I honestly think he would have been Trek’s LORD JIM character, driven in all ways to atone, but thought this would be a good place to drop a smart-ass remark. Nothing personal, Cameron.)

It’s not impossible. There was one good SNW ep last season!

Some episodes transcend crappiness to infamy. Case in point… Spock’s Brain.

Yes, Star Trek TOS broke many barriers, and it should be appreciated for that. But if you compare apples to apples, the writing was atrocious for the majority of the episodes. The amount of sexism, stupid stories, was profound. Even on TOS they didn’t explore a strange New World every episode. There was no such thing a Star Trek, so, of course every episode is “new”. The writing for the new Star Trek is 100 times better than TOS. Just a bunch of haters that can’t deal with change.

Says the basement dweller that never has anything positive to say about any of the series that have been created. Week after week are you this bitch about how bad everything is.

Perfectly said.

I agree. Not sure an Ensign would be up to that. Also, how did he manage to get in the castle and become the Supreme Leader? In TOS, it was always a Captain with natural leadership ability going rogue, not a Lower Decks person.

I can’t blame them for wanting to emulate CT. Swing and a miss, though.

Maybe they should’ve simply continued the TOS movie love, flood the scene with the saturated red alert red light, and call it a day. It’s bad when the USS Grissom looks more submarine than the fancy Titan.

It probably was a violation of the prime directive, but it really reminded me of something Kirk would have done in TOS. He was always interfering and setting cultures on a different path. The only thing really missing from the episode was a supercomputer A.I. to outsmart.

Wonderful classic Trek inspired episode.

Lord Garth…

The older field guy, Luq, who was trying to help them is such a stock character-type throughout Trek. I feel like I’ve seen that same character a million times before… a convenient plot device.

The worst part, IMHO was violating the prime directive by hauling the asteroid off the planet. I understand the debate and acting to prevent a natural disaster that will wipe out a planet has been justified. But that’s not what this was. The planet, and the species was not in danger. The asteroid altered their culture. Who is the Federation (or Pike) to say that’s not OK.

What would be really interesting would be for in a future episide, or even in a different series, for the federation time police to come in and say, hey you changed the timeline in a way that messed up things. This change allowed them to advance technologically very quickly. In a hundred years they join the Klingons and take over the Federation. Go back and fix it. put back the asteroid. Talk about a moral dilemma!! There are unintended consequences for every action, even those with good intentions.

Just a thought.

Writers who were really good in regards to explaining tech stuff in a way that made treksense to me were the novels from the Reeves-Stevenses, especially with MEMORY PRIME and their spectacular FEDERATION and PRIME DIRECTIVE books. They did some TV work on the last season of ENT, but I don’t know how well that worked out because I had given up on the show halfway through the second season opener and have only managed to get through a few episodes since, none of which were remotely decent.

Am actually having deja vu right now, because I realize the feelings I’m having of utter dissatisfaction with SNW are exactly how I felt in mid-run on VOYAGER when I just plain gave up on it and never looked back. I can’t say the same for DSC, because for me that show was always rotten when I tried watching, except for some of the Mount episodes, so there was no big deal about giving up on the show after two seasons. With SNW, I feel like I committed to it even though I only liked a few s1s, but that commitment is waning rapidly.

Actually, life is like a football, as it seems like we spend most of the time getting kicked around by folks who are making way too much money and seem to live well above the law.

Maybe they’re all wearing cloaked versions of the life-support belts from TAS? BTW, I’m so enjoying rewatching TAS that I actually reread some of Alan Dean Foster’s expansive adaptations of the eps, and realized that certain ways I have of expressing myself actually seem to originate with phrases Foster used.

I enjoyed it better than the Toronto episode… the one which I thought was going to be amazing and ended up looking like a Canadian-made police TV show episode.

Commenters here DO bring up the usual good points about weird plot points… but I try to avoid thinking about them too hard or then I’ll end up disliking an episode that I enjoyed watching.

Yes… why is the castle basically vacant…. how do you “forget” a case of phaser rifles and vaccines (?)… why does a 24th century starship not have better computer failsafes to protect the crew in case of mass memory loss or incapacitation… etc.

I will say that Pike kicking the crap out of Mr. Left-Behind makes sense because he’s in a state of severe frustration, confusion and duress.

Justice for Hemmer!

No I didn’t as far as I can remember. I commented that I didn’t like the optics of two characters of colour being dispatched/injured to allow a white guy (Pike) to beat up a badly stereotyped Asian warlord character.

And other than that, I merely said the episode was okay. Not the best, but certainly not the worst (nothing ever will ever be as bad as the fairytale episode from last season or the season 2 premiere).

This is the first SNW episode I have not rewatched again right away or have no interest to. Probably in time, but yeah that’s how bored I was.

Yeah agreed. But at the time, it was a sensible argument. You have more time and money on an episode, logically they should come out better in the end if you have good writers and producers. And so far, while there have certainly been a few great ones, it’s pretty fleeting.

Look at all the fourth season shows of TNG, VOY, DS9 and ENT. I can find at least a dozen solid episodes in all those seasons easily, a few a lot more, especially with DS9. And every one of those seasons has some of the highest rated and iconic episodes in Star Trek period. From Year of Hell to the Visitor to Terra Prime, Best of Both Worlds and Drumhead.

Now look at season 4 of DIS, maybe 3-4 I would consider at least decent but NONE are amazing in any way. Most are generally mediocre (but that’s only my opinion). Even if you argue there are more good episodes, but which ones would be that season’s Visitor, Terra Prime, Drumhead or Year of Hell? And they had half the episodes to produce.

Of course if someone wants to tell me I’m wrong and list more episodes I will happily listen; but in reality I think most people have realized it really does start with talented writers and a real passion for the show they are making regardless if it’s 10 episodes a season or 26.

Yeah! :-)

When the other rating sites like IMBD and Metacritic also concur, it certainly points you in the right direction. Certainly better that trusting, say: “but this random Jtrekker guy on Trekmovie told me the ep was not well received.” LFMAO

It got a 7.7/10 on IMDB which is a bit lower but still good. I still think that is personally too high, but that’s why they are called averages.

Yeah I know the baseball analogy, you been giving it to me for 5 years now lol. But you also know that I have never gotten on your case for being so negative about any of these shows even though I really like a few of them personally like SNW and LDS. A few weeks ago someone accused me of attacking anyone who puts down a show I like and I think me and you proves that is totally not the case after five years. ;)

But I’m still pushing for you to like one episode this season. It may be on a losing battle here but I am an optimist!

There are certainly people who feel that way. Winners always draw more than losers. So there are a number of fans who opt to stay away when the team sucks. But there is still a significant number who STILL follow and watch or listen. And God help me, I still watch the Sharks even though they have been garbage for a few years. Just like I still watch Trek.

Certainly true but everyone still remembers Shades of Grey lol.

I was shocked Picard S3 started out as strong as it did. I mean, it wasn’t great Trek. But it was above average. And downright spectacular for Secret Hideout. Unfortunately I had zero interest in Picard’s son. Or his ‘secret box’. Even 7 of 9 was completely dull. So the show pretty much ended when Amanda Plummer was vanquished. After that everything pretty much came to a grinding halt.

At this point watching Trek is like watching my baseball team when it’s really really bad but I’m hoping some pitcher might throw a no hitter or some player hit 3 or 4 homers or hit for the cycle or something kinda notable.

Oh yeah… They did mention that. I think this issue might come down to editing, then.

I have always refuted that argument since it was first presented. Fewer episodes absolutely does not mean the better episodes will get made and the “filler” or lesser episodes will not. Because when they were making 20+ they were still trying to make the best episodes they could. The ones they knew weren’t that good they only learned AFTER The episode was shot and cut. So the chances of good or bad episodes remain pretty constant whether they are making 29 episodes, 24 or even 6.

And as a result people mostly remember the successes and generally forget about the mediocre or dud episodes.

All true. There is a limit even if the themes are working at 100%.

I know of course but it still proves most of them considered themselves hotshots.

Good point about the shuttle. I guess I completely missed that line in the episode, but that makes even more sense now.

Yeah the guest star in this episode felt a bit wasted and he’s a very famous character actor. I think they should’ve made him a bit more important to the story overall instead of a guy just telling them to let La’an die because they will forget her tomorrow.

That was always the argument others made after Enterprise was cancelled that whenever it did come back to TV it needed to be a much lowered episode count and that would give us not just more quality episodes but practically no filler in the process. And then we got shows like DIS and PIC which didn’t improve much in the story quality department and there were still just as much filler in a lot of these episodes. DIS season 4 feels like a season that could’ve told it’s story with half the episodes and we’re only talking 13 of them.

I think SNW is certainly much better overall and the episodic nature REALLY helps IMO. But yeah, even with just 10 episodes, none of them have been groundbreaking amazing either. Most of them could feel like just a typical episode of TOS/TNG/VOY in any season which is to say not bad, but nothing great either. And those shows had waaaaay more episodes to make with a fraction of the time and budget.

That actually could be the reason. I’m not as hard on Goldsman as others but his stuff where he’s had the most sway has been very lacking on Trek to say the least. It was a big reason why I was worried about SNW after the dumpster fire of Picard season 2 but was pleasantly surprised by it.

But I can’t help to think most of it was probably due to Meyers influence. I have no proof on any of that and has never seen anything Meyers made before (but only heard good things), but Goldsman just come off more like a fanboy than a serious writer IMO.

Agree DeanH. I felt it really missed the mark personally but it wasn’t awful either. There were definitely good things in it but overall it just had too many issues IMO. But if others loved it, great.

Yeah it’s usually just a word that is being filtered that gets blocked. ‘

My advice to anyone, especially if you make an extra long post about something but after you write it DON’T press send. Copy the message and just put a single word in the post like ‘the’ or something. Post that and then press edit and paste your original message. It will go through every time. That’s how I’m able to send all my toxic and hate filled posts to Phil without any worries.

You are cherry-picking one line in my post. And I put that in there mainly because you were sort of suggesting that adapted screenplay work is not all that worthy a type of screenplay writing…well, David Lynch, who you admire so much, did that as well with some recognized success, just like Akiva.

And we will have to agree to disagree on Wild at Heart. That was a pointless movie of losers doing losers stuff…ah wait, but it had the “David Lynch atmospherics”…that didn’t save it though. My opinion only.

And even for Mulholland Drive, which I like, take out the sexy female romance scenes, and really, what’s left that is all that great?

Lynch is sort of like Wes Anderson — he make’s only “David Lynch movies,” not “movies.” And that petered out finally, just like I think this Asteroid City bomb is going to set back Wes’s future film opportunities.

Well I will modify a bit of what I said as it was not my intention to be insulting — I do realize the dude is beloved by many.

OK, I will agree that David Lynch has that “Creative Visionary” thing going for him that is lacking in what Goldsman does. That thing of his though is just not my cup of tea — I have never really enjoyed the “film noir” types of movies — I typically find that fakey and shallow. For me to like one of those, it has to be a really outstanding film like say, Chinatown. I will give Mulholland Drive an honorable mention in this category. Babylon last year is the perfect example of what I don’t like about this category of film — way excessive and historically unrealistic such that I can never suspend my level of disbelief in what I am seeing.

I never liked Twin Peaks when it was on the air, and I like it less today. Perhaps it’s a character flaw of mine, but I just don’t find it all that interesting. My opinion, and I realize it’s beloved by many, which is fine.

” Unfortunately, this whole board has been a massive complaint box. 90% of the comments here are negative or sway towards the negative.”

But this is just not true. I mean not even close. The irony about this statement is I don’t think I’ve seen the fanbase this happy about Star Trek in the last year since the 90s, this board included. From the first season of SNW to LDS season 3, then part 2 of Prodigy and finally Picard season 3 has all been mostly praise and positivity. People have mostly gushed over all these seasons, ESPECIALLY Picard season 3 lol. I have said it myself I really liked it but still nowhere close to its biggest fans either.

Of course it doesn’t mean everyone liked all of them as you personally pointed out you’re not a big fan of LDS and PRO. But the majority (or at least who watched) did seem to like them. Unfortunately not enough people watched PRO but that’s another topic. But all these seasons have not only been seen as positive you can see that on review sites like RT and IMDB. SNW got an 8.1 on IMDB and an 80% score on RT. PRO has around a 75% score. LDS also has an 80% score like SNW. Picard season 3 has a 90% score and so far the highest of any new season. Compare that to it’s season 2 score of 30%, easily one of the lowest (but not the lowest either ;)).

And it also proves despite what some people believe not everyone is out to get Kurtzman Trek. When the scores are low you hear every ridiculous excuse or conspiracy theory out there; but the biggest being they just have a fundamental disdain towards everything related to NuTrek. But if that was the case, these new shows and seasons wouldn’t be getting 80 or 90% ratings either. It kind of proves when people think something is actually good, they will speak up about it as they been doing all year on this board too.

SNW is not getting as much love as it got in season 1. But you can simply argue because the episodes just haven’t been as good. Again no conspiracies or people solely out to hate it or season one would never have such a high rating in the first place, right? And people still seem to like season 2 so far, it’s just a bit more divided compared to season 1, that’s all. I don’t see that as an issue or that 90% of the board hates this show. If anything, the haters still seem to be in the vast minority. Others are just being critical like me, but still like the show overall.

Well sadly part of it just seems to be ‘hate watching’ which has become a thing the last few years. It’s people who literally watch something just to hate it and then want to drag it through the mud every week. I don’t get it or condone it, but it’s not illegal either. And I don’t think that’s happening here either.

For others though it is more complicated. Most people who are watching these shows today has been watching Star Trek for at least 30+ years and they simply feel compelled to watch at this point. The Star Trek universe is so ingrained in their lives they watch just to keep up with the story lines and canon. And others still want to be part of the conversation. You mentioned you didn’t like some of the SW shows and just quit, but there are plenty who simply can’t because like Star Trek fans, that universe has been part of them their entire lives and they still want to keep up with it. The prequels were the perfect example. Some fans treated them like blasphemy but they still went multiple times to watch each film lol. And of course we are talking about the hardcore fans out there which this site seems to attract. I bet no one here considers themselves just a casual fan and that’s really the issue. And they still want to be part of the community end of the day.

But of course I understand if people feel there is just too much complaining or sick of constant negativity too. I’m not saying I want to read that all day either even when there is a show I don’t particularly love myself. I would always prefer a balance. And with SNW, it seems to be just that. Yeah some people seem to not like the show at all, but they are also in a vast minority. SNW seems to be the most popular modern show in the fanbase right now. Picard season 3 seems to be more popular overall but that’s over now (until hopefully the Legacy show comes). But the discussions about this show are pretty well balanced IMO. That’s all you can you ask for. Yes too much negativity is not a good thing but if you are coming for just a circle jerk then you shouldn’t be here. Just make a Facebook page, invite all the gushers and go to town about how everything is amazing. I would find that immensely boring personally.

But yeah, it’s also why I wish there was an ignore button here if people just get sick of hearing others trash a show all the time, any show.

Yeah the season finale of SNW was great. In fact I will go one farther and say it’s the best season finale of modern Trek so far. Of course that’s not too hard when PIC and DIS had some of the worst season finales in all of Trek IMO although I really loved the Picard season 3 finale too. But I think the SNW one was still a bit better story wise if I’m being honest.

I’m actually shocked you liked as much of Picard S3 as you did lol. And we’ll see about this season. I do think you will like at least one although so far it’s 0-4, right? For me it’s 3-4 with this episode being the first one I didn’t like. But none has been amazing either. Just mostly typical episodes you would find in any of the classic shows.

I don’t think I ever had so much fun reading a board lol. Just so much bitterness and fighting everywhere. I lurked 95% of the time in those days, I didn’t even want to get involved with most of the discussions because they were so divisive at the time. And sadly a lot of people did get attacked for their opinions which is never cool. But today that doesn’t happen a lot. Look at this board, people are expressing if they liked or hated the episode, no one is being called names over it. That’s ALL I care about.

Everything else is fair game.

Can I point you to all of the other Trek villains whose motivations were revenge. Also power corrupts, that was also part of the point of that Ninjago season. He probably came into power because he knew how to use the technology left behind and then as time went on power went to his head resulting in what we saw in the episode.

No I rewatch it because I genuinely love that episode. I can look up the references and Easter eggs online if I need to.

Seems like season one really took the whole “going back to TOS basics” to heart, including run-time. This year, I think they decided to go the route of a lot of streaming projects and decided to break the broadcast mold for an average 1-hour TV show. I’m also a fan of The Orville, and Seth McFarland specifically decided to stretch episodes once they got to streaming because that allowed them to give “breathing room” to scenes that would have been truncated for broadcast. Not saying that had influence on SNW, but pretty sure the thinking is probably the same.

LOL! RT is the bar for determining the quality of a show/episode? Isn’t that a running gag with a lot of the internet right now?

It’s a big reason why I have become more appreciative of the older shows. They had soooo many episodes they had to make every season and certainly a lot of duds but also made some of the best and classic stories with only a fraction of the money and time shows like DIS, PIC and SNW gets.

Maybe the difference here on TM is that more people approach it from a Star Trek/science fiction angle and not as much from a message/deep thought angle. I guess for me, I just feel like Star Trek has (and maybe the better statement is “used to”) do a better job of blending science-fiction and a message and still make it feel like Star Trek. I felt like this episode had a little of all of that, but that it just didn’t blend well and fell short a level of quality that I think should be expected with a much higher budget and MUCH MORE limited production run (10 episodes vs 20/24) than series of the past.

For me, I just felt like the plot motivations that were used to create the whole “forgetting what we’ve had/what we got” messaging took me out of the story. The original “villain” (Zac) doesn’t make much sense to me as to his motivations to take over a society to become king and a slaver; the “field” Kalar was an empty attempt at creating a empathetic character who we were supposed to really feel for in the end (but I felt like that was unearned); and then we had a main character (Pike) go out of character (in my opinion) by nearly beating a former member of his crew senseless because of anger when the story pretty much tells us his emotions of guilt and regret of leaving him behind should have overpowered his violence. To me, that took away from the messaging of the episode. Oh, and making Spock useless again wasn’t too great to me either.

You beat me to the punch with the actors statement. Looking at the behind-the-scenes pics from the making of the Marvel movies should help anyone understand why an AR wall (actually called an “LED Volume” for anyone interested in nerd speak) would be much preferred over a green screen. I personally think that the lack of green screen results in a better product, from the acting side of things.

Zac is the biggest plot hole in the whole episode to me. We obviously see his actions during the episode, but he also decided to go power-crazy and take over a civilization? I get that he would be angry after being marooned, but it seems like a stretch that someone vetted to get into the academy, become a Yeoman, and be considered fit for Away Team duty would also be a sociopath with aspirations of becoming a king over aliens who continues to force them into servitude. A bit of a bridge too far for me….

When La’an starts feeling the effects, it’s stated that they are 6-hours from the shuttle. They were only there for four hours when Pike and company had their first visit – stated during the initial briefing – which establishes they weren’t there as long. But since it seems to take a different amount of time to effect each person, and since the Enterprise does include a few alien personnel (such as Spock), it infers that physiology also plays a role. But I guess around 6-hours is when effects typically start setting in??

At least in LEGO Ninjago, it sounds like the storyline was earned. I didn’t see how a former member of Starfleet just suddenly decided to declare himself king and take over a society. It felt very empty and odd. I could understand him being angry, but the whole taking power over the aliens on the planet just didn’t compute. I get that he could have been a psychopath or sociopath or whatever, but I’m pretty sure Starfleet is pretty good at weeding those people out for the most part. There’s always exceptions, but “Zac” just felt too weak of a character to me to be able to take over a civilization.

To be fair, Lower Decks takes more than one viewing to just catch all the easter eggs and inside jokes. There’s A LOT packed into each episode.

The shuttle was a plot point. Zac mentions that he saw them approaching the surface, so this was apparently a setup so that he could be ready for them and capture the away team instead of getting caught off guard. Yes, maybe they couldn’t beam down, but I really think that’s what they were going for so that he could be already angry instead of just surprised.

And, yeah, the primary guest star on the planet was an almost total waste. Seems like they brought him in to sell the “emotions” part of the story, but he could have done a lot more. Ironically, in previous Trek’s, he would have most likely been the most important character who we would all still remember to this day that HE was in Star Trek. Now it’s just a pointless footnote.

“Raging Bull” and “Citizen Kane” are both examples of why the success of a director or writer should never be measured by box office performance or Oscar wins.

I think the first 2 (maybe 3) seasons of TNG feel dated – and maybe in some ways moreso than TOS in context. But I think the final 4 season still stand up well because they moved away from some of Roddenberry’s control in the beginning. Even the costumes changed pretty drastically after season 1 and 2, and to me, that stands out more than some of the issues with plot and production design.

There are a lot of well-loved movies from the first “golden age of Hollywood” that have similar (if not much worse) issues, but they are still used as examples cited by actors, directors, producers, etc. all the time as their inspiration or benchmarks for what they want to achieve in their careers. They can see past those issues, and I think a lot of Star Trek fans can (and should) as well. TOS was a product of its time, sure – but it was also AHEAD of its time in terms of creating science fiction that wasn’t just for kids and was grounded in reality. It wouldn’t have lasted this long if there were plenty of redeeming factors, and getting hung up on a few things that don’t really have an impact on the overall quality of the show is like dismissing a work of art because it’s starting to show some wear and tear.

Applause and head nodding from the guy back here!

It makes NO SENSE that the first four episodes of the second season of this show have been decent to good, but none of the them AMAZING. The idea of a limit of 10 episodes in the 80’s and 90’s would have been laughed off unless it was a mini-series. And guess what? A lot of those mini-series were VERY GOOD and won tons of awards. SNW, in my opinion, would maybe fit as a mid-afternoon syndicated filler show during that period of time. But with it’s budget and personnel, it should be able to create SO MUCH MORE!

I think there were monocultures even back then that are obvious based on the different tone and feel of the different series. The difference is that I believe the people in charge back then still EMBRACED science fiction (and obviously a lot of spec scripts were from science fiction authors). I really don’t feel like there’s been much science in the fiction of SNW. It’s been much more drama, and just backstories based on concepts that they assume the audience are generally familiar with, so they don’t see the point of bringing science into the equation. There was little to no explanation of the properties of the asteroid that was causing the memory wipe, and last week, they didn’t really try to explain the time travel or even the paradox very well. I get that technobabble got a lot of criticism in the Berman era, but it just felt like they at least TRIED to make the science make sense back then.

They were also trying to setup the part of the story where Vina is an Orion slave girl. That whole scene seems very uncomfortable to Pike, and I personally think it has more to it than just the fact that Vina is involved. So I totally agree that this was sarcasm.

Yup, this is my stop, too, k, and I agree with you on all counts (though I do have a bit more love for “Wild at Heart” than most).

My soapbox since even the previous season has been the complaint that, with 10 episodes, is this really the best you can do? I think if you took all the previous series on broadcast TV that had as many as 20 to 24 episodes per season, you could easily have 5 to 10 each year that would beat out almost ANY of the SNW episodes so far. If the excuse is that more episodes create the chance for more success, then why not write 20 EPISODES and then narrow it down?

To me, beating Zac is a HUGE plot hole. I think Pike genuinely FELT guilt and regret for leaving him behind. Yes, Zac turned out to be a jerk and I’m sure Pike was pissed about that. But my guess is that his true feelings towards the guy were that he let him down, not that he wanted to kill him. According to the episode, feelings come through even if there are no memories there to back them up. Are we really supposed to believe that Pike suddenly had no guilt or remorse – so much so that he was willing to do great harm to the guy, if not KILL HIM??

To be fair, Anthony’s reviews always lean towards making almost any episode sound more positive than a lot of fan reviews and comments. I laughed at this sentence in his review as well, mainly because my heart was FAR from broken. It felt cheesy and just there for comic relief. Didn’t feel like Ortegas was taking some step forward. But I will say that I enjoyed the part where she worked herself up to go save the ship. From there, it just didn’t give us much more.

See, I don’t get that either. Being from Montreal – I am a Montreal Candiens fan. We haven’t been a serious contender for the Stanley Cup in years. I used to go to games and watch on TV religiously. Now I don’t. I found that the decisions Management was making were wrong. I found the player were not good. They sucked. They still do. I am still a Habs fan – but I don’t watch anymore.

For me, if I don’t like something or if I find something sucks (like the Star Wars TV shows), I won’t watch and waste my time.

Agree. But when the actions don’t make sense in the universe the storyteller has set up, then the stakes are not real and it is hard to be invested as an audience. Then any solution can just be created and the inconsistencies waved away. To fudge those in the name of story is ok up to a point, but it comes off as lazy or even arrogant writing

You may as well ask why fans of football or or hockey teams that suck still follow those teams. They know there is a high likelihood of loss. They know the team isn’t going anywhere. They group up and complain about players and the front office being inept. Yet they still show up at games and follow the team on TV and radio.

True. TOS is still the best series to date but they had plenty of dog episodes. However their ratio of good to bad is still the best ever of any Trek iteration.

Yes but that was a “reboot/alternate reality”. ;)

There was one decent episode in Star Trek Discovery. The front half of Picard S3 was decent. Then fell apart on the back end. Lower Decks had one funny episode in 3 seasons. Prodigy started off decent but, like Picard, the back end was just not up to par with the front end.

And Strange New Worlds did have that one good episode last season. Episode 10 whatever the title was. In fact, it’s the one and only one episode of nu-Trek I have seen twice. So there is still a chance they will accidentally hit a bullseye again. :)

I like it when we agree on things without acrimony :)

No, you’re interpreting the sensibilities of what a TV show character said almost 60 years ago as a intrinsic part of his character on a different TV show made decades later. Almost like you’re trying to find reasons not to give this episode any credit.

Would have been nice if they said something about that. I was only able to glean from what was briefly stated that he may have had some kind of hand to hand wartime experience. Which is a far cry from actual training. If it was mentioned in some other episode they shouldn’t rely on viewers recalling that sort of minutia.

Capturing the castle wasn’t the problem. The problem was his beating of Zac to the point where he could have killed him. Under more control he would have stopped WAY earlier.

Also situations like Yonada or the Paradise Syndrome planet are unique. In both cases they were carrying out the intent of what the advanced beings wanted for the people. Yonada wasn’t supposed to get hit with an asteroid. The machine malfunctioned. The oblisk was put on that planet to deflect bodies that could bring about the extinction of the inhabitants.

I admit that the STID planet was a little different, however. In that type of instance the argument of Star Fleet “playing God” for a civilization I think is in play.